 Ok 1. Did Karrimor mean to all it Bomber or Bomba? Which name is the cock up? Bomber is much better IMHO.
2. Ladies version is 30% smaller then mens - that seriously takes the piss. Do women carry 30% less kit? Do they only go with men who carry the rest of their gear?
3. (Just an observation) Hypalon - same stuff Zodiacs and the like are made of. Is indeed very tough, and presumeably waterproof too.
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oops left thread notification on
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 Dan...if you weant to disable the notification then wait till you get a notification email and click on the link to disable it...It works for me.
As for the pack size thing, I think the idea behind the pack being 30% smaller is because on average, the ladies have smaller lenght backs and as such will have smaller packs.
And FWIW, I think 'Bomba' is kinda cool!
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Awww come off it! Jeannie/ Any Other girls out there - what do you reckon?
I don't check my e-mail that often and that way seems much more hassle compared to a simple post...
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 I thought Bomber was better and said so, they preferred Boma, partly I think because it might be insensitive in some countries. The prototypes with 'Bomber' on were apparently because the Korean factory tried to second guess Karrimor and decided it would end up as 'Bomber' anyway, so they'd save themselves some work. Sounds bonkers I know, but that's what the K guys told me.
It smells very rubbery though... Hmmm.
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hmmm nice
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rubber...
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Any views on the ladies's sizing Jon?
Hypalon always smells forever, as anyone who's ever been near an inflatable boat will testify
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Yeah, everyone knows that it's the bloke's job to carry the ropes and any heavy hardware, so it makes a certain amount of sense...
But seriously, I take your point. I'm not going to knock Karrimor for producing a women's specific rucksac - and they've done more than just tweaking the harness spacings btw, stuf like the curve of the hip-belt has been altered etc - but I suspect it's something that was developed on the hoof as the project devloped. The good thing is that there's a new Ladies Fit version of the Alpiniste S in a 45+10 size because one of the Karrimor testing team is Nancy Brookes and she specifically asked for one.
Most of the thinking behind the smaller capacity will simply be that women have shorter back lengths and consequently if you want to keep a technical sack close fitting and narrow, you end up losing capacity. If you look at Macpac's sacs, they're the same, the capacity varies acccording to the back length.
I'd also guess that realistically there's going to be quite a small market for a £120 women's specific, super tough, 30+10 technical climbing pack. Not that that's any excuse, but I'd guess retailers will be shifting more of the men's version.
Use it long enough and you'll associate the outdoors with the smell of... rubber. Perhaps there's scope for a whole range of 'olfactory friendly' packs with a choice of aromas, preferably not too 'Magic Tree' though. Ooops, we gone random.
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The example I's use is LA (suprise suprise), who pioneered proper ladies fit (lots of changes) with ND. Their daysacs are the same size in ND, though yes the big sacs are smaller by about 10l in ND versions due to size differences.
But 45l to 30l takes the pee-pee! Women are just going to laugh when they see it in shops!
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 OK on request from Dan I'll chuck my 2 pennorth in...
The relative size of the pack Bob and I carry depends on the activity and our level of expertise / qualifications, hang on, I'll give examples.
Climbing trip.
Bob is a 'proper' climber (SPA/MPA) and I just 'climb a bit' at a fairly easy level. He carries most of the gear, although I did carry the rope on a backpacking trip in May until my bad knee went and then Ben took it for me. (and on my ML-style training trip one of the group had a 'teensy-weensy' rucsac and another didn't feel very well so I carried the rope for 2 days) So, I often carry a rope, Bob carries the rack which is heavier.
Fellwalking.
This is my forte, so Bob has a little daypac with his lunch and waterproofs in and I have the 40 litre one with first aid kit, survival bag, sleeping bag for winter conditions, extra rations for the whole group etc.
Backpacking.
Bob and I both have large Lowe packs, but, as stated above, because the ND one is shorter, the capacity is correspondingly less. Having said that, I weigh less than 9 stone with skinny little arms and shoulders and Bob weighs much more and has huuuuge arm and shoulder muscles. If I carried the same weight as him I would be suffering from exhaustion while he would be skipping along. Of course, if we had the same size / strength ratio, it would be a more equal split.
How we split it is that he has the tent and I carry the food, wine, guidebooks, crockery and cutlery etc. Obviously as the trip goes on my pack gets lighter as my knee begins to give me gip so that's OK.
Understood all that? Good. I'll be asking questions later.....
First question - does this sound fair to you MEN?
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 Yeah that sounds fair. I think it all boils down to the individuals body weight. My full xbow, with 7ish days of food, will weigh about 3 stone, including the weight of the pack itself.
Isn't there a rule-of-thumb, whereby you should never carry more than one third of your total body weight?? I'm 12 1/2, but I know I'd die if I carried 4 stone!
These Bomas sound heavy, so you'd get less gear inside for the same effective weight. My xbow's not exactly light - but I wouldn't want to walk around tied to an ejector seat either!
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Yeah, we've always done something similar, because the Minaret is semi-permanently linked fly to inner, it's hard to split for load sharing, so I tend to carry it and anything else that's significantly heavy - ropes for example, while the redhead gets shrinkage stuff like food and personal kit.
I have my purist moments when I reckon women and blokes should carry equal loads, but it's all compromise really. If you're going to get analytical, it's variable distribution and the ideal load share is one where both parties are carrying loads that mean they can move happily at about the same pace with about the same amount of effort.
That seems reasonable to me and to everyone's mutual benefit.
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 Doesn't just go for women either. If you have a group where there is a large variation in size, regardless of gender, then the loads should be divided accordingly.
Its much better to move as a group and avoid possible injury due to a macho "carry equal shares" outlook, that igonores physical capabilities.
So there.
Si(C)
Si(C)
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 I have to agree with Dan on the size thing, if you want a 70 litre sac, you want a 70 litre sac no matter what back size / genital equipment you have! For it to be women specific has to be down to harness, hip belt design etc.
I tend to carry more than Michele but quite rightly as I'm bigger and stronger than her. But no way would she let me carry everything as she accepts her responsibility to carry her own gear, survival bag etc (now if only I could get her to navigate). It makes me spit when I see couples out on the hill and the 'little girly' is carrying sweet fanny adam, even when Sarah comes out with us she'll carry her own waterproof, drink etc (apart from scrambling but that's for safety issues).
A tip lads: When your significant other half isn't watching, slip a couple of rocks into your own rucksack. Then say "feel how heavy my sack is dear, I think you'll have to carry a bit more" at the first opportunity surreptitiously discard the rocks... Don't get caught!
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 Mike.....just hope your good lady aint reading this post!
But yea very crafty!
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I'm just making the point that Karrimor have screwed up again with ludicrous sizing.
And frankly, while the Bomba is interesting, I don't see streams of climbers returning from mountains with shredded packs and at 2kg+ it's too heavy to be seriously considered.
(I recall the lightweight Berghaus Extrem range and the tale of one which fell several thousand feet, only breaking a buckle!)
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Yeh, Mike, we also get our kids to carry their own lunch, drinks and wetties on their backs. Self-reliance. Tim is much bigger and stronger than I am but we want to encourage them not weigh them down. Besides, when I carry the larger pack it is good for my fitness and I feel really light and speedy on a quick trek with small / no pack.
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What amazes/surprises me is that first couple of days of backpacking. On the first day the bag seems too big, too bulky and too heavy (it probably is!) But by the third day you don't really notice it.
tsk! humans! aren't we lovely adaptable creatures?
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Just love the feeling of dropping the backpack at the end of the first day and walking around the camp...feeling like an astronaut on the moon!
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