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Gear

Richard Gear: US v European Kit
 
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Richard Gear: US v European Kit
Is the grass greener on the other side?
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Jon Doran
16/02/01 12:12
 Rookie 9677 forum posts 60 photos 5779 articles 10 reviews 14 bookmarks
Richard Gear's been very even handed in this answer. But what do you reckon. Is American kit better or worse designed and made than our homemade brands, or is it all just a load of prejudiced baloney? And why do the Yanks go for those weird floppy hood peaks eh? Answer me that.
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Peter Depledge
16/02/01 14:50
 Rookie 44 forum posts 3 reviews
Jon, does it really matter?
I like to buy British whenever I can, but I temper that with buying something that's up to the job in hand. If something doesn't measure up, then no matter who makes it(or where it's made), I won't get it.

If the Yanks want floppy peaks, let them. I prefer a nice stiff peak so i can see the mist better!
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joan collins
16/02/01 15:56
 Rookie 1024 forum posts 58 reviews
I expect gear to perform well, fit well, look good and last. So nearly everything I own is American-designed, largely Patagonia, mostly due to fit. British manufacturers may be trying to accomodate womens' needs, but they seem to be doing this by assuming women are short-legged, fat-arsed men, so their fit is actually often worse for me than the male garments.

I don't agree that the hoods are necessarily worse on American jackets. A wired peak just gets in the way of a climbing helmet to no particular advantage. Whereas the Southpark Kenny-style snorkel hood on my Patagonia and Mr Collins' Marmot jacket can be done up really high to keep off snow and wind as well as fitting better with a helmet.

And some American garments, like Patagonia's Zephur jacket or Mountain Hardwear Ventigaiters are just clever products with no British equivalent,

I'd like to buy British, and I do so where I can (rucksacks, climbing hardware), but until they up their fit, innovation and quality I'll be sticking with American clothes.
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Jon Doran
16/02/01 16:20
 Rookie 9677 forum posts 60 photos 5779 articles 10 reviews 14 bookmarks
Surely this is an unintentional boon for short-legged, fat-arse men though, who can now buy women's outdoor kit from UK manufacturers... Actually I know this to be true, having witnessed just such horrendous fit.

I actually think one of the hardest things is to create a hood that works equally well with or without a helmet. Mountain Hardwear have it nailed, but a lot of hoods designed to be worn with a lid, simply can't cope with the extra material when one isn't being worn.

Cut isn't just a women's problem anyway - lots of stuff seems cut purely to fit the fattest possible guy who might want to buy it or to look fashionably baggy. I can think of about three fleece jackets that don't hang off like post lipo-suctioned skin and one of those is last year's Karrimor Alpiniste, now replaced with another beer-gut special. Am I missing something here, or aren't these garments supposed to be designed for fit, active people? The other weird thing with the new Alpinsite is that it's made from Aircore fleece for lighter weight, but on the scales is exactly the same as last year's... Presumably its so the consumer can think it's lighter?

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Ms. Mjausson
16/02/01 16:22
 Rookie 326 forum posts 3 photos 5 reviews
Most of the time I don't even know what nationality my gear is. I do have a soft spot for Swedish gear but it still has to measure up. That's why in the end I chose a Kiwi tent rather than a Swedish one - it was better suited to what I was going to use it for. In the end buying stuff just to shore up the industry of - insert favourite country - means working against your own best interest as an outdoors person.
--Mjausson
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Jon Doran
16/02/01 16:29
 Rookie 9677 forum posts 60 photos 5779 articles 10 reviews 14 bookmarks
Peru.
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Ms. Mjausson
16/02/01 16:32
 Rookie 326 forum posts 3 photos 5 reviews
Mornington Crescent.
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neil ledwith
18/02/01 20:19
 Rookie 90 forum posts 14 reviews
UK BRANDS....................
Hm guys tough one.
As richard points out we are increasingly seeing UK + Irish Buyers Being offered kit that is becoming increasingly Americanised(have I spelt it right??????)
I bought a Berghaus Paclite as when i asked around many people raved about how gout MTHs was. However the hood on the paclite felt similar so i decided to save weight..........
The hood simply cant stand strong winds and I am considering going to try and have it "refitted" with a wired one. How this can be done I dont know but an suggestions are welcome.
Lowe Alpine - are they US????????
They seem to be. They produce jackets that are good for British and Irish conditions and is far better than the feeble continental stuff from the likes of Lafuma.
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Jon Doran
18/02/01 21:50
 Rookie 9677 forum posts 60 photos 5779 articles 10 reviews 14 bookmarks
I don't think the hood on the Berghaus PacLite's that bad when you remember it was designed as a lightweight, multi-activity jacket rather than full-blown winter kit, but I can see what you mean. It isn't the stiffest of peaks, though ironically it's no floppier than the ones on a lot of alpine jackets.

I don't know about the feasibility of having the hood modified. I guess you could try a company like Shoecare - see our links section under 'Gear Companies - Care' - though I reckon you might have troubel sourcing suitable wire for the hoods. Have a look at:

www.pennineoutdoor.co.uk and www.pointnorth.co.uk who bother specialise in materials for making your own outdoor clothing. One of them might be able to point you in the direction of a suitable machinist.

Lowe operates in the States and over here, but was founded in Colorado, however they seem pretty clued up on British and Irish conditions, partly, I suspect because this is such a big market for them. Let us know how you get on with the hood mods.

Jon
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Mike B 46
03/02/12 23:33
 Rookie 159 forum posts

Is it just down to US brands v UK brands (since the technology is common to both), or is a mixture of the larger US market and US retailers? 

Joan Collins has just pointed out the difficulty of getting a particular type of clothing (albeit not even available from the States).  Its generally easier to find something 'niche' in the US, simply due to the size of the available market, but its also true that the US retailers (such as REI) offer more lines (check out Backcountry.com v Cotswold). Perhaps they are more adventurous, or are more willing to see different markets?

If you think about the volumes expected for the UK, I can understand why a lot of British clothing seems to fit where it touches.  If your producing multiple sizes, why would you change the cut of a particular size so it looks good, when 'looking good' is generally not the first criteria to the average buyer! Or perhaps thats simply the perception of manufacturers and retailers?

Looking at Trailspace or similar, what your seeing a larger number of 'cottage' manufacturers in the States.  They are people who wanted something very particular for themselves (particularly ultralighters), and found that they could sell what they'd made to others.  The UK has a smaller market and therefore fewer manufacturers of this type.  And where are they going have this stuff stocked?  Go Outdoors? Cotswold?And what are the chances of a review?

I generally buy UK stuff (or at least available in the UK), because thats whats around, and of course you have to really try out something (or at least have heard of the brand) to want to buy a particular brand name.  However, if you are after something more than UK brands have on offer, you can now get a review on it and then buy it, thanks to the internet (and your smart phone).

Personally, I'm shocked that the female market has been so neglected by the outdoor industry (customers with money!), and there is certainly a niche for a UK website specialising in female clothing.  UK manufacturers/retails are going to have to raise their game - the net now means that there is a whole new source of supply out there, and if a UK brand can't cut it, the US only brands can and will supply it.  I suspect the biggest problem will be the cost of shipping and the lack of 'try before you buy'.

Joan Collins - your probably not the only person to want the kind of product you describe in your other thread.  Perhaps this might be the start of a cottage manufacturer, if you want to take orders?

Which is better?  Depends what your after. And the bulk of it is made in the Far East anyway.

I did notice that the recent Outdoor Show in Salt Lake featured a Mountain Equipment stall, so there is obviously a two way street.

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Spiritburner
03/02/12 23:42
Mike B 46 wrote (see)

Joan Collins has just pointed out.....

Not quite - it was over 10 year ago!

Certainly see more womens stuff around these days than 10 years ago but I sometimes wonder who it's made for.  Some of it my partner can get away with but for a lot of stuff she prefers the mens cut & she is no way man shaped!

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Edited: 03/02/12 23:43
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ed h
04/02/12 08:15
Women on the hills?

I can't say I agree with it.

Toilet paper everywhere
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Metric Kate
04/02/12 09:16

Have you undertaken DNA analysis of the bog roll to discover if it has all been left by women, ed? I think this would make an excellent research project

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Mike B 46
04/02/12 18:27
 Rookie 159 forum posts

'Not quite - it was over 10 year ago!'

It had been a long day...!

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Dorset Lad
04/02/12 18:55
 Rookie 48 forum posts

Quantity of toilet roll used seems to increase by the square of the number of women in the house, so maybe its the same for the number of women on the hills !!!

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