Thanks for posting this. My partner Ali and I did the Grade 2 variant under the watchful eye of "Baggy" Richards from Plas y Brenin last year. A great scramble and a truely memorable day
I agree, the photo doesn't seem to be of the arete. I climbed this route with a mate on 16/02 on a very wet, cold day. Topped out into a snow storm. Excellent, memorable scrambling. The route description given here very good.
I'm pretty sure that's the arete - it's viewed from the opposite side from the Cwm Glas approach and the detached nose at the start of the route isn't visible at this angle, but after comparing it to some other pisc of the route, I think it's correct. I may be wrong though.
The photo is definitely Clogwyn Y Person Arete, taken from the east side. We walked around the end of the arete to get a bit of blue sky in the photo rather than have it all cloudy. As Jon rightly says, you can't see the nose itself from this angle.
Like others have commented elsewhere, I'd strongly take issue with the claim that the route (which is a cracker) is overall a grade 2. Grading's obviously subjective (especially between different guide books), but four of us who climbed it recently felt the route to be too serious in terms of technicality, inescapability and overall situation to merit anything other than a solid grade 3, minimum. Anyone who's done, say, the Lake District's Grade 3 Pinnacle Ridge and expects Clogwyn Y Person to be markedly easier as a grade 2/3 is going to be in for a potentially very sharp surprise. Steve Ashton's gradings (and sometimes route descriptions - seriously deficient on Clogwyn Y Person - did we head too far right too early from the gully?) have long been debated, and the implication in 'Scrambles In Snowdonia' that easier, more devious, options exist throughout the route seemed very suspect. Crucially the tricky 3rd (crux) pitch, a blank v-groove climbed by a slanting thin crack/ramp on its left, with an awkward wide step-over at the top, appeared to us at least to have no easier alternatives on either side, and is a moderate rock climb for sure. Abseil retreat seemed the only (sobering) alternative. Par for the course with a Grade 3/3(S). Not quite so par for a 2/3. In the Cuillin, this would be graded 3 or even as a graded (moderate) climb.
your description of the approach is a bit off, Unless i'm seriously mistaken you head south west rather than south east from the start point up Cwm Glas Mawr. Also, I would agree with a previous persons poast that this is probably more on the high side of grade 3 rather than grade 2; a grade 2 shouldn't really require ropes or protection.
Just wouldn't want punters to decide it would be a nice wander for the family and getting stuck.
I would also agree that its a grade 3 route having done it a few years back. We had a very wet day for it which ups the grade but without rope work it would not have been possible and I could see that the only escape available is with a rope.
It's definitely Clogwyn Y Person - here's a shot taken last year with the a dark background to the arete.
Could it be climbed safely solo using a few slings and a rope loop or jumar. This might mean having to down climb to release protection or did you all use slings?
Could it be climbed safely solo using a few slings and a rope loop or jumar. This might mean having to down climb to release protection or did you all use slings?
Fred, we, at least, weren't able to protect it with slings alone - rocks were required at a few key points.
As for ropes and grade 2 scrambles, it's all subjective really isn't it. Some people would like one, some wouldn't.
Yes, couldn't agree more, but being subjective it's all the more important to grade conservatively, mindful of the grading across all the most popular (original) scrambling guides. This forum's a great case in point, with some (experienced) people not convinced there's a grade 2 bone in this route's body.
It's a 3 if you start from the base of the Nose, but a 2 if you start up the chimney.
Dave, wonderful book though it is, Steve Ashton's grading is felt by many people to be on the low side at times compared to the Lakes and Lochaber guides (three aimed at a similar audience), and even in my experience compared to the SMC Skye book, so an overall 3 grade taken from his 2/3 even for the gully start version would seem wise. It was wholly out of whack with every other grade 2 scramble the four of us have done, even on the Cuillin. When personally covering routes stretching up to Tower Ridge within a scrambling framework as Outdoors Magic does, downwards 'grade creep' is a danger, especially with Steve Ashton's occasional help!
What do you mean by"rocks were required at a few key points"
Joe Brown used to insert pebbles into cracks and secure slings around them but I suspect this is not what you mean.
My context is that I have all the kit I used for XS climbing in 1969 but do not have any of the cams and other modern magic that has come therafter.
I have a broad spectrum of nuts and hexes and even sky hooks(probably all fatigued by now). I fancy getting up into the high places without the faff of full modern kit - what do you think? Do i have enough kit?
More background - I am 57 ( approaching 60!) but in good nick. Last week I went up to 2722m on M. Peterno right next to the Tre Cima in the Dolomites on a Via Ferrata without anykit.
Please advise as I would not consider going up without any kit.
I found it surprisingly serious, but then again it was chucking down with rain all day. We climbed the whole thing in pitches with a small rack and I fell off on the crux but that has a safe landing anyway. Traditional nuts (e.g. rocks), hexes and slings would be fine. As to whether or not it would be OK for an experienced person to solo; it's hard to say. My advice would be to solo something a bit easier first and get a feel for the grading system. Maybe the grade 2 to the right of Idwal slabs? It's necky and serious and the route finding is interesting, but it's technically easier. Clogwyn y Person Arete is every bit a grade 3 in my opinion.
Hi all - I took Trail writer Nicki Giles out on this route earlier in the year and guide several times a month. In my view it is very hard to justify a grade 2, I would give it grade 3 every time. That said if you take the left hand options from the middle up you can make it a friendly grade 3! The article is here: http://www.expeditionguide.com/Trail%20Magazine%20Article%20on%20Scrambling.htm
On Saturday we climbed the arete and at the stance below the crux I was presented with a mobilephone and we were requested by the Llanberis MRT to rescue a couple off the Clogwyn y person arete. They had become crag fast below the crux that Alison speaks about (I presume) and dare not descend. Anyway, we started preperations to lower everyone back down the route. It then all became a bit confused after that, the MRT phoned back and said for us not to bother as the RAF heli was coming to get them, then when I'd carried on and climbed over the crux and set up a belay, they phoned back and asked us if we actually could rescue them please, as they wanted to reassign the RAF heli. It wasn't till alot later that I discovered the reason why I was being shouted at and asked if I could climb back down the crux (by my friends who were still with the couple at that time), it never occured to me that the MRT had changed their minds a second time and that was why my friends were asking if I could downclimb the crux, I said no. I didn't think to ask why they'd asked me until about 10pm that evening when we were sat in the tent. In hinesight, my friends should have tried to get them to continue climbing attached to our rope, but I had no idea what was happening below me at that particular time.
Anyway, the guy who was leading was really shaken up and I don't think his friend had much experience, they didn't know how to absail, we had no previous knowledge of the arete and what still lay ahead. Although it would have been good experience for us, we'd never done this sort of thing before, it would have taken hours to get 5 of us all safely back down the route.
coincidentally, It was the OM article and subsequent discussions above that actually inspired us to go, this weekend, and see what all the fuss was, what a suprise we got.
If the person involved reads this, you can email me for pics and vid of your rescue at::
I must take issue with several points although with the first I accept that I may have duff info.
1. Wasn't Scrambles in Snowdonia the catalyst to this daft idea of grading them. Damn sure it was because we all laughed at the time and then thought that Steve had cleverly found another niche to make money out of. Clever chap. This means that his grades have to be correct and all others dodgy.
2. Gr 3. no way.
3 How can you not find the route or need a description. Its there in front of you. Dirty great big thing as you walk up the hill
I did this one with a mate yesterday. We began with a direct climb up the front of the Parson’s Nose, the middle pitch turning out to be a particularly challenging V Diff involving a tricky incline traverse on a near vertical rock wall. At the top of the nose we were then faced with the only real hair raising part of the route, a sheer 5 metre descent into the Western gully, on to a chockstone barely big enough to accommodate two people and flanked by considerable exposure. This move involved hanging on a hand hold and dropping off the final two or three feet in the style of Coleridge on Broad Stand.
On reaching the arête proper we tended as far right as possible before ascending a long steep pitch that was a good grade 3 bordering on a moderate climb. Keeping to a rightward line we soon arrived at the pitch others have referred to as the crux (v-groove). This is definitely a moderate climb but if you can stretch to reach a good hand hold at the critical point, it’s not as difficult as it appears to be from below. In any case it would seem to be avoidable, as we saw a couple ascending an easier pitch to the left at the same time.
We continued to the top of the arête, taking just about as challenging a line as possible, which involved solid grade 3 scrambling with a few climbing moves thrown in. There may have been easier grade 2 options but we weren’t looking for them. Overall this was a highly enjoyable climb/scramble on superb rock. Finally to answer another question raised on this thread, yes, it is perfectly possible to solo the route, even when taking a tougher line, as we proved yesterday.
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