I am planning a couple of challenge long routes, Welsh 3000s and Cullins, and I wonder if anybody has any advice on light footwear suitable for scrambling, fast moving and good ankle support.
Some friends suggested fell running shoes. I am not a fell runner and I wonder how suitable this type of shoes are for scrambling.
Any ideas please? I hate the idea of having to do these routes in my B2 LaSportiva which are fantastic for scrambling, but too heavy for fast moving.
Inov-8 are very popular these days for that kind of thing, particulary, the terrocs and roclites. They are shoes though and therefore don't offer ankle support in the conventional (boot) sense.
I've just got a pair of 'Merrell Chameleon Wrap mid' GTXs which seem to have a moderate weight trainery feel but with a grippy vibram sole & ankle support. Suited me better than the Montrail Stratos I tried on, though I haven't tried Namches.
Going without ankle support seemed just a bit too scary for me at the moment......
Probably depends whether you are intending to run, or walk fast. If you plan to run, then fell running shoes (with aggressive soles) would be best I'd think.
If you plan to walk, then whatever works well for you in the approach shoe line. As you can tell, a number of us are Terroc 330 lovers on here, but there are others too. I notice Bear Grylls wears Merrell shoes when cheating death on the telly :)
For fast and cool moving non-Goretex suit many folk best.
I do a bit of running and on a recent 4 day walking trip round Corrour/Rannoch decided to go as light as possible and wear my Flyroc 310 shoes. I was really glad I did as they were very comfy and made walking a lot easier, and I had no blisters. Obviously 4 days on the west coast meant my feet were fairly wet but this was only an issue at night when I stopped and my feet got a bit cold. When you're moving though its not a problem. With regards to ankle support- I think a lot of people have weak ankles because they wear boots with loads of ankle support and as a result the muscles round their ankles never get the chance to build up. So if you're used to fairly light flexible boots at the moment I don't think you should have any problems. My only reservation would be using them in Skye as the rock there can be a killer on boots. I tend to take an old pair boots when I go there so I don't have to worry about ruining them.
I always wear my old boots in the Cuillin as the ghabro is very rough. I think any of the stone shoots would be tough in runnung shoes and they would probably rip.
The Cuillin would indeed be an ordeal for most trail shoes. I've scrambled in the Namches and they are fantastic, my current favourite boot. For softer conditions I like my Montrail Highlanders, not so good for scrambling though as it has a fell running sole pattern, but it is a soft compound so you can get away with it. I've got various other Montrails and they are a lovely bunch of things indeed.
I really like Keen Targhee mids and shoes, the newer sole is grippier and the leather outer is tough-ish.
I've had a pair of Terrocs, but had to give up as really don't suit my feet, but many love them.
I would visit or phone Andy Hyslop at rock and run. He happens to hold the record for the Cuillin traverse and is a mean fell runner and orienteer.
FWIW I think the Inov-8 terrocs are just about the least appropriate shoe in the Inov-8 range for true Scottish mountain use - they are really just beefed up trainers with a not very grippy sole. If you check out Inov'8s own terrain matrix you will see that they are of only 'limited use' for "steep loose rock", "long grass/heather/tussock", "mud" and "steep wet grass". That's almost a definition of UK mountains! They don't even get recommended for wet rock. Best kept for hard, low level tracks and lifestyle. Certainly not a shoe of choice for the Cuillin.
One shoe for the Cuillin and the Welsh 3000s is a tall order because you want sticky rubber for the rock, but studs, or at least deep cleats, for the steep wet muddy stuff. I'd pick walshes because I know them, but ask the guys at rock and run.
If you want a more supportive boot like thing, thats waterproof too, then boots like the Kayland Vertigo High have merit, and needlesports are selling Scarpa Pro-Ascents for £65 - very much a Cuillin boot, though not waterproof.
I would be very careful of american trail shoes that are designed to perform on hardpacked dry flat surfaces.
The Terrocs are super grippy, I don't know where you get the idea they don't have a grippy sole. The rubber is very soft.
This is the main reason they are not good on steep loose rock, the rock just rips the softer grey part of the sole clean off. I've sheared a pair of mine flat from decending the scree between Green Gable and Great Gable.
However on smooth rock and hard trails they last alright, I've never had any issues with them slipping on anything.
The more I look in to things, the more I feel like ALS has it spot on. Like the tyres of racecars, you have to choose the correct footwear for the trek you are facing.
Does that mean that there is a perfect outdoors boot or shoe? No.
However, if you walk in mainly terrain xxx and yyy climate, then zzz may be better suited to you (if they fit your feet).
I'd agree with ALS on the Scarpa Ascents, which I guess would be perfect for the Cuillin Ridge (not that I've attempted it, although I'm acquainted with Skye Gabbro!) - and on the shortcomings of Innov8 (or anyone's) "trail shoes" which have soles which are really designed for hardpack rather than anything else.
Having had the amusing (for other people) experience of spending about half an hour of my Welsh 3000s trip last year on my arse after slipping over on wet grass, I'd never try wearing anything too smooth-soled again on a typical British "mixed route" of rock, steep grass and mud!
It's a pity Scarpa don't make the Helium shoe any more as that was an ideal compromose between cleaitng and grippy rubber, with a bomb-proof and happily unlined upper. Even though my pair are well past their hill days they are impossible to kill and still do dog-walking duty in their fourth year of service!
I haven't used the Terrocs in the Cuillin but I have used them on a wide variety of terrain from rock to wet grass and I can't see any problems with the grip. When I did a summer long round of the Munros and Tops I wore Brasher Hillmaster boots and they were fine on every type of terrain from Cuillin Gabbro to Cairngorm bogs. Many Scottish treks involve a wide variety of terrain. I'll be setting off soon on the TGO Challenge, starting in Strathcarron area and finishing on the roads of Aberdeenshire. In between there will be rocks, scree, boulders, grass, heather, bogs, firm paths, muddy paths, tarmac roads and probably more, all sometimes wet, sometimes dry. I'll only wear one pair of shoes!
Shed Dweller, I get the idea that they don't have a particularly grippy sole from Inov-8s own classification and my own experience. If you want grip on steep soft wet peat you need studs as in the Mudclaws and Mudrocs, and 'sticky rubber' as in other shoes in their range would seem to be a good idea for rock. Terrocs don't have studs or particularly deep lugs, (even before they wear), or 'sticky rubber'. Terrocs perform worst in six of the nine types of terrain Inov-8 list, and are only recommended for 'hard pack trail' and 'dry rock'. Fine for cruising land-rover tracks in the Cairngorms on a sunny day but not, surely, a shoe of choice for the Cuillin as the OP wanted, especially given that a wee bit of lake district scree sheared the sole off yours.
Just seen your posts Duncan and Chris .. I suspect that a pair of Brashers are what Duncan is looking for, but I daren't tell him. Perhaps if today an Olympic champion crosscountry runner were to design a hill walking boot based on a running shoe last, and make it waterproof, light, extremely flexible, with a sole designed for the UK fellside, and give it an exotic name and colour it would become trendy .. but Brasher Hillmaster .. nah, no-one will believe it. I reckon they still outclass most boots out there for general hillwalking. Mine got me up loads of munros. Poor on wet rock though, and not much cop for scrambling. I note that Chris says he doesnt have any problems with the grip of terrocs, yet he doesnt have enough confidence in the grip not to use poles. Try a pair of O330s on a steep, wet, muddy hill. No comparison.
Granted, with care, it's possible to negotiate most different sorts of going with the same footwear, even a vaselined Oxford Brogue.
However, I doubt you'll find many fell or corss-country runners wearing plimsolls or even Terrocs - for the very good reason that the faster you go the more likely you are to be dumped on your backside, and the worse the damage is likely to be.
Marcus, you are nearly right about plimsolls, but I believe Eddie Campbell, who ran the Ben more than anyone, trained in a pair of Dunlop Green Flashes, and Gordon Pirie claimed that plimsolls taught him how to run correctly cross-country!
My concern with the Terrocs, or any other light fabric shoes, in the Cuillin would be that the Gabbro would shred the uppers in a matter of days. I totally destroyed a pair of brand new fabric boots in a week in the Cuillin. Leather footwear with as few seams as possible stands up to gabbro best but may not be ideal in other respects. I wouldn't have concerns over the grip of the Terrocs - it is excellent, for walking anyway.
