Walking and Climbing

"From the car park ... take the path up Coire Mhic Nobuil through the trees for half a mile to a bridge. Turn left here and acend towards Coir' nan Laoigh."

There is no bridge across the Abhainn Coire Mhic Nobuil after half a mile (there is one further up, but that one will take you to the Bealach a Chomhla), the path towards Coir nan Laogh starts on the left hand side of the burn!

But the bridge is on the 1:25k OS map so it must be there ;-)

The first time I noticed it wasn't there was in May 2004 - after looking for it for about half an hour up and down the stream... I was told by another walker it had been removed some time before. The last time I was there was on Tuesday... still no bridge - honestly! ;-)

This begs the question, was the route checked before publication on here?

Are these routes written from personal experience?

Yes, but from personal experience over 15 years and well kept log books. During that time bridges do get moved/destroyed. It's not feasible to recheck every single route immediately prior to publication, especially over the Lakes, Snowdonia and Scotland. I refer back to my logs for the routes and recheck with the latest available maps, but obviously details can change between the last visit and now.

It must be about 5 years since I was last there and the bridge had been removed then. The "new" route straight down the ridge was already severely eroded and deeply unpleasant. Does anybody know what the current state of the path is.
Andybr

The path has been repaired in some places, and, as the weather has been quite dry recently, I didn't find it that bad. It wasn't boggy at all, but after a spell of rain it would be a different thing...

Yes, but from personal experience over 15 years and well kept log books.

Just for the avoidance of doubt are you saying that you’ve done all the walks and scrambles you’ve published on this site Dave?

Even if you have done them all in the dim and distant past I have to say that I find it a little disconcerting that a website such as this publishes routes that are not up to date. Fair enough if you are using an old guide book as you expect that to date and you do have the published date to refer to. Even on a website I wouldn’t mind it being inaccurate if the date gave an indication of it’s accuracy. But this route has a date at the top of the page of 23/04/07 which future readers will assume was the date the walk was actually done. And it’s not the first time we've had similar issues...see Glen Affric, Dow Crag

I had a similar experience wondering where the bridge was. We had the most recent 1:25000 OS map & it still shows the bridge. We crossed the river, but it could be difficult if it hadn't been so dry. As it was fairly tricky river crossing - only other option would have been to reverse the route, going over horns first.

Also think scrambling exaggerated, never huge exposure.

Also think scrambling exaggerated, never huge exposure. I'd have to agree John. The report says the scrambling "never gets above grade 2". I very much doubt it even gets above grade 1.

Maeve .. this is what the web says about girls called Maeve .. must it also be true??!! ;-)

The great benefit a website has over the printed word is that it provides an opportunity to update the information when changes are necessary. I think the most constructive thing would be for those people who have more up-to-date information to suggest amendments to the wording so that other people who look at the descriptions can benefit. This could be done retrospectively too; so that OM can maintain a compendium of up to date information that has stood the test of scrutiny. That way the compendium becomes self-moderating, and the route descriptions take on a shared ownership.

Alison, that's exactly the idea behind the new version of the routes section, when it finally goes live. Bridges do come and go, especially in Scotland and preferred paths do change over time. It's an impossible task to keep up with every such change on every route in every part of the country - but the new section is designed in such a way that members can update the routes with these changes.

Yes it would be preferable to have repeated a route within a few days of publishing, but it's not exactly feasible to drive up to northern Scotland once every 3 weeks to do a single route. Even if it were financially viable it still wouldn't totally eliminate typos or editing mistakes. For example the Dalness> Ston na Cabar > Kingshouse > Ston Dearg > Dalness tag on the Glen Affric walk is obviously an error where Jon has pasted the new route over the previous 2 day trip and forgotten to change that one line.


Scrambling grades are always subjective, but as there is some question of the grading in this route I've now cross referenced with Ralph Storer's description in 100 Best Routes on Scottish Mountains. His description is The traverse of the Horns is an exciting scramble, but the delights of the exposed sandstone terraces will not be appreciated by all. Some people feel exposure more than others, and it's surely better to try and give a description aimed at the notional "average" reader.

As for the Dow Crag route - overall the rock is "sound", but that can't eliminate the posibilities of any individual move becoming loose over time. It's a very popular route and gets a lot of traffic - and one single incident dover a period of many yeears and thousands of people doesn't change the overall nature of the route.

Yes, time has an impact on routes and individual features can change - and yes it's good to get up to date information where such changes have occurred - especially if done constructively, and that's the idea behind the new routes section. Even then, however, there's still the possibility of errors through typos or editorial mistakes, and the ever present problem that any description is going to be subjective.

Alison - are you advocating Wikiroutia!?

Maeve - I tend to agree.

For me, the description of Ben Wyvis as "one of the most isolated of the Munros" smacked of 'armchair advocacy'. It just isn't.

Mind you, Dave's grasp of the Scottish Hills is still infinitely better than Trail magazine!

If you want superb route descriptions/trip reports of Scottish hills, written and illustrated by people who have walked them recently, then have a a look at Scottishhills.com. Here is Beinn Alligin, 12th April 2007, for example. And here is Glen Affric.

Yes that's a great website ALS, registered a while back and found it very useful. Hope you don't mind but your first link isn't working so here it is again!

It worked fine for me, but the second one also showed Beinn Alligin. Here is the Glen Affric trip report which I think ALS meant. :o) The easiest way to use the site is to go to here pick your hill and left click on it. You will then be offered a selection of (dated) trip reports.

Sorry guys, all fingers and thumbs.

A similar resource on OM would be good, but not confined to Scotland. Perhaps a winning route could be selected each month ...

Very comprehensive reply Dave, but you never actually answered the question "...are you saying that you’ve done all the walks and scrambles you’ve published on this site?"

"It's an impossible task to keep up with every such change on every route in every part of the country - but the new section is designed in such a way that members can update the routes with these changes." So if I'm reading this right, OM is going to publish routes which may or may not be accurate at the time of publication and we correct them. Imagine the comments that would appear on this site if Trail magazine suggested that!

Must remember to adopt that approach at work tomorrow! Oh, sorry boss, I based that report on information from 5 years ago, but don’t worry the clients will update it for us!