 Finally, although it's not clear, Montane has used what it terms 'intelligent design' to minimise the number of sleeves overall.... Blimey, I'm glad they were intelligent enough to leave it at two! One sleeve would be a bit minimalist - for most people anyway 
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 So what do you do if you're an octopus looking for the latest lightweight waterproof?
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 I dunno matt, I have often though to myself 'if only I had an extra sleeve' a few times on the hill  I get the feeling no articles on OM are ever actually proof read? You can always find a few little funny things like that. 'The hood's okay for lightweight use, but doesn't really give enough facial cover for mountaineering in our opinion and only just takes a hood, so try carefully before buying.' I fid it really frustrating when a hood doesent take a hood properly. grrrr 
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 Oh, I'd just dropped Jon an email pointing them out. Unlike Trail etc. it's fixable after being published. So what do I buy now that the Superfly's gone rubbish?
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Seems a perfectly 'armless mistake to me. Don't want to lose your hood over it now!
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 Fixed  Sorry about that, proof reading your own writing is a bit of a nightmare because you know what it's supposed to say, so you tend to read it that way, doh. Thanks for the heads-up, John, I was just reading this thread when it arrived. As far as an alternative goes, it depends a bit on what you want the jacket to do. For a lightweight eVent jacket, I think the Montane Quickfire is good, or possibly the Rab Drillium, though the hood on that's not great ime. If you're looking for something more technical in a climbing sort of way, some of the new Pro Shell stuff doesn't weigh much more than the Super Fly though its a little more expensive and a bit less breathable. And of course there's also the Rab Latok family. I suppose, to be fair, if you have short arms and an odd-shaped torso, the Super-Fly still might work for you, but it's one of the few Montane garments I've not really got on with. I'm a bit of a believer in the idea that good design is about knowing what not to include rather than loading things up with loads of extras, but the problem with the new Super-Fly is that some of the stuff on it just hasn't been properly thought out. The cuff tabs are just too stiff and too big, for example, and sit in the wrong place on your wrist, which seems like a small thing, but is actually really annoying over the course of a day...
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I've got the old Montane Air jacket which clocks in at 352g on my scales. It's a really nice bit of lightweight kit and a nice weight for slinging in a rucksack in case it rains. It's not really solid enough for me to want to use on those days when it's miserable when you get up and you know it'll be raining half the day or for anything multi-day. My other jacket is a Berghaus 3-layer Gore Tex one which I bought back in the days when I was a student and is a far from impressive 635g for a jacket with minimal features (simplex design). What's making me want a new jackets is that I know there's now a sizeable range of jackets which will be better featured, more breathable and lighter than this whilst being a bit more serious than the Air. On the plus side I do have short arms so maybe the Super Fly would fit but I'd much prefer a jacket not to have things that aren't thought out and will inevitably irritate me. The Drillium or Quickfire would effectively be a minor upgrade to the Air so doesn't fit the picture. The Latok range is definitely an option, I have a pair of the Latok Alpine Pants and like them so it's definitly an option. I think I'll probably just go trawl round the shops in the big smoke at some point and try on as many shells as I can to see what I like and what fits me.
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 Interesting. Jon and I must have got very different samples. The arms on mine are 2 1/2" longer than than last years version, which were shorter than the year before that. The chest is several inches slimmer than all the older versions on mine as well. And the hip cinches flatten the chest out and do away with the famous Montane Mono Breast. It's definitely a winter jacket now though. It feels stiff and beefy. Anybody got a production one and a measuring tape?
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ptc, Did yours have the reinforcement stuff on the shoulders too? If not, then maybe its an extra difference between them, a short wide jacket for people who lug huge packs around with required reinforcement and a narrow long one for people capable of straightening their spines out.
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John, mine's got the reinforcment as well. I actually really like it, it's a million times better than last years for me. There's a couple of ropey finishing details on mine, but surely it hasn't changed that much going into production? I'm going to sneak into Cotswolds and try one on and see if they're ruined it Edit; They did take the easy way out with the arm articulation in the same way as Mountain Equipment are guilty of. Rather than shape it cleverly, just make the upper arm really baggy. Even that's not too bad on the SuperFly though.
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Interesting. Jon and I must have got very different samples. The arms on mine are 2 1/2" longer than than last years version, which were shorter than the year before that. The chest is several inches slimmer than all the older versions on mine as well. And the hip cinches flatten the chest out and do away with the famous Montane Mono Breast.
It's definitely a winter jacket now though. It feels stiff and beefy.
Anybody got a production one and a measuring tape?
Montane have told me, several times, that the sleeves are as per production. As for it feeling 'stiff and beefy', that's because of the way it's been put together, have a look inside the pockets and you'll see, for example, that the inner layer is actually face fabric. Then there's the reflective running on top of a flap in turn running on top of a water resistant pocket opening zip. They make the jacket feel stiffer because there are more layers there, but there's nothing about it that makes it inherently more of a 'winter jacket'. The hood still offers relatively little facial protection/ Oh, and you're right about the sleeve articulation btw.
I found that the shoulder protection works with some pack straps, but not others, it depends on how they're contoured.
I wonder about the sizing on the jacket you have Pete, if those waist cinches are sitting at your hip, the jacket must be quite long on you?
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I'm going to track one down in a shop btw, and compare sizing / cut etc.
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I tried one on last week and found the sleeves to be very short.
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Sounds like things might have been better if they'd intelligently designed out those pesky sleeves after all!!
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 Intelligent Design? Isn't that the creationists version of evolution? Either way, if Montane are using divine design, I demand to know which deity it is and what do the other companies think?! I live near the town where this god is moving in mysterious ways, and don't wish to be caught up in a clothings arms race. really worrying.......
<gibber>
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Jon, you're right about the reinforcements, they're a bit rubbish. They don't line up with anything at all I use regularly. The hip cinch things seem to line up where my rucksack hip fins sit though, that's probably why I quite like it, it's dead neat on me. Also I don't have as much reflecto on mine, only the cuffs, back of the hood and the big grin on the backside. Mine's a Large and the whole jacket is smaller than last years bar the sleeves which are longer. In fact, the dimensions, torso width and length/ extended cuff to cuff width are identical to my size large Rab Latok Alpine apart from the tail on the SuperFly which is 2" longer. Bizarre.
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Ah...right! Went into Cotswolds on the way home and tried on a production version and it's a totally different jacket. Narrower and shorter arms, mine has part mesh side pockets, the shop one had all face fabric pocket linings as Jon describes. That's a rubbish idea, at least on the similarly pocketed Rab Super Dru the overlap fabric is just membrain and scrim. It all sits different as well, the hood feels smaller. Still a lot slimmer than the older versions. On the whole? Oh dear.
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 Now then Always worth checking out the XT version. I have this, I have a normal lenght torso, I suppose, but me arms aren't particularly long so I have no problems with 'hovering cuffs'. Yes, it's a bit heavier but if feels like a full on winter jacket but still light enough and packable. I love it, can't wait for more bad weather....
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Can anyone tell me if the sleeves are longer on the XT version?
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Now then. I don't have the jacket with me at the mo but I do have my arms, both arms, on my person. My arms appear to be 54cm long from pit to top (not end) of thumb. The arms on the XT fit fine, if anything I would say they are a little too long as I have to have the cuff adjusters done fairly closely to stop the sleeves being too long. Again, great jacket etc etc. The reinforcement on the XT is the real deal too.
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