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| Edited: 28/04/08 13:47 |
 Very interesting The manufacturer isnt reproducing your designs i.e. a piece of paper with a drawing. But in fact a finished product - so I think really it is more a case of patent - isnt it. No doubt you have a patent on this tarp 
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 look again. one is a simple flying vee, the other isn't. one looks symmetrical, the other doesn't.
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Mike BTW thanks for the designs in the meanwhile - I might have a go at knocking one of these up Do you have a plan for a longer version of it?
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 Mike: grow up! Apart from Parky's comment above, if you think you can copyright an extremely simple shape in a bit of fabric you clearly don't live in the real world. The world is full of tarp designs, many of which are extremely similar.
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The familiy of Leonardo Da Vinci will no doubt be taking action against Westland and Sikorsky.
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Most tarp designs are extremely similar. This one is not. The designs are clearly marked as not for commercial use. Even the names are similar. The original plans are marked "bat-wing tarp" and this new 'original' one is called 'an angel-wing tarp'. 1. There is strong asymmetry in the design and this has been replicated. 2. It's made of a single piece of fabric (poor use of fabric but excellent strength) 3. The pole position and tarp position is the same 4. The peg-out points and guy points are the same 5. The purpose and use of the tarp is the same When I designed this tarp I could find nothing like it and I could find nothing that was designed specifically for use with a bivy bag. The only commerically available bivy-bag tarp is produced by http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk and is a square tarp. I do have plans for manufacture but they are in fact a few weeks off.
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 I don't think this will stand up legally... .... well not without a well placed walking pole, a couple of guys and several lightweight pegs.
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Mike I fear that you are being a bit silly - lets draw a simple illustration - say a yacht - one with a sail... A bermudan sloop mainsail design: 1. There is strong asymmetry in the design and this has been replicated. 2. It's made of a single piece of fabric (poor use of fabric but excellent strength) 3. The mast position and sail position is the same 4. The sheet hauling points and attachment points are the same 5. The purpose and use of the sail is the same Does that mean that all manufacturers of mainsails are falling foul of copyright?? Secondly - any 'unique aspect' would need to be patented - not copyright.
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 Mike, first of all thanks for your nicely elaborated design put 'out there' in cyberspace for all to see. It would seem that you are glad to share knowledge and innovation to those with a similar interest. Now others have made the point already, but you can't invoke copyright on this one (unless Morph or others used images, text or graphics that you created). Next, I imagine that you didn't seek patent (and probably wouldn't be granted one) for the classic V-shaped tarp. So that would be hard to argue too. Thirdly, patent in the UK is given to the first to invent (in the US it is first to file). You would have difficulty proving that you 'invented' this quintessential design and even proving that you had invented it before Morph would also be tricky (unless for example you posted a copy of the design to yourself in a sealed, post-marked envelope...). For a start he has been discussing his designs on these forums for several years if memory serves. Forthly, the novelty of Morph's design is the fabric and construction method more than the shape (if indeed it is novel given the enormous number of people across the world making their own). That itself might be an idea that could be patented. And finally, the outdoors industry (clothing, gear etc.) has rarely tried to patent from what I can tell. Designs are widely copied, improved upon and recycled. Imagine if the inventor of the frameless rucksack or the geodesic tent had patented their design...? There'd be less competition, less innovation and less consumer choice. If Morph wants to make a few quid selling his products in a fiercely competitive market then good luck to him IMHO.
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Fossil: This is a complex area of law. I've received a copy of the plans from TeamIO and we are talking. John: I've spoken to wayne today and he has sent me his plans. I've made some suggestions to him. Anyway, I'm not seeking to get him to withdraw his product or seeking money. If were to enter legal discussion over this it would be a bit silly. This is a niche design for a niche market and volumes and margins are sufficiently small to be not worth worrying about overmuch. www.backpacking-lite.co.uk exists to promote and encourage lightweight design and innovation in the UK but there are limits and at first glance; well at first glance the photos shown look identical to my stuff. Now, waynes plans are not IDENTICAL to mine. Some of the dimensions are subtly different. That's sufficient to satisfy me that whilst Wayne may have been 'inspired' by the work that I've done it's not a-straight-to-manufacture rip-off. Given that I've been hard at work over the weekend on a sewing machine taking some designs into production it probably wasn't the best of days for a sense of Deja Vu. Since this is the first I've heard of wayne's new designs I felt it important to point out similarities to stuff that has been in the public domain for a considerable time. I sold my high horse to buy diesel...
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| Edited: 28/04/08 15:12 |
Fossil: This is a complex area of law. I've received a copy of the plans from TeamIO and we are talking. That's all I am going to say for now.
Thats fine chap.
I am no lawyer - but you have posted your 'comlex area of law' issue on the WWW. - On a forum! And as such we will all now discuss it. I think your wrong - as do others - but some may agree. But we will discuss - and we will talk and we will comment - because you have invited us to by the very fact that you have posted this on 'our forum'. It's not personal - feel free to comment or say nothing. Up to you my 'ansome. . Edited to add: If it is such a complex area of law - why have you started by naming the thread 'unauthorised rip-off' Obviously its not that complex as you have announced to the world that you believe team IO are rip off merchants!
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| Edited: 28/04/08 15:12 |
I've updated my previous post which probably finishes anything I wish to say...
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It's a bit like Wrangler stating that Levis make jeans with two legs... 
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Mike, as you are probably on the phone with your legal team, I don't expect to hear from you in a while... but I wanted to say (seriously) that I like your website very much. There are some excellent DIY tips on mods to kit and generally sound advice. I've done a little tarping myself and have bookmarked your page for future reference... though I wonder if Backpackinglight might feel your choice of domain name is a copyright infringement?  So seeing as you are clearly able to put together good advice in a domain you evidently understand, I would imagine that you would be reasonable enough to seek advice on an area that you don't? I would encourage you to research your legal standpoint carefully before pestering Morph, who is in many ways a kindred spirit. Of course, I have no idea what you have already discussed with him and perhaps it is going amicably, but the tone of your original post seems as if you were 'out for justice'...
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John, I wasn't aware of any backstory. I just am on the OM newsletter. I'll read it. I've asked the moderator to remove this thread because I am not interested in a flame-wars. It's not my style.
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 The familiy of Leonardo Da Vinci will no doubt be taking action against Westland and Sikorsky.
oooh stop......I nearly wet meesen there
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 I've asked the moderator to remove this thread Sorry Mike, this is the forum without moderation 
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it's still here
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