I have a waterproof problem with these boots: 2 hours in wet grass got my feet COMPLETELY soaked! Other people with me with traditional old shoes kept feet dry. Has anyone else had the same problem? I returned my boots to shop and they are being checked; I hope they will give me a new pair or refund.
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 Often the problem is wet trousers/socks wicking water in to the boot: were you wearing gaiters? Pete.
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No, no gaiters, however it is just not possible that the water would have seeped right down to the tip of my toes. I didn't actually check the wetness of my socks from top to bottom but seem to recall that the top area kept drier than the inside of the shoe. Anyway I am quite used to walking around with other boots and have never had such a problem: the main point of this thread here is "has anyone else had some waterproof problem with these boots", and not "does this guy know how to deal with wet conditions" ! - ) cheers for you answer anyway Pete.
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 I've not, so far, used our test pair in wet conditions, but I'll make a special effort to get out in them as soon as it hammers down. Let us know how you get on with the return, if they're leaking then clearly they should be covered under warranty.
ps: I've just left one to soak in a basin of water, the suede wets out quite quickly, will report back though obviously it's not a scientific test.
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| Edited: 26/06/08 10:18 |
Well, what I can tell you is that the uppers, both fabric and suede seem to wet out very fast. I wonder if what's happened is that the outside of the boot has wetted out making it very hard for the Gore-Tex liner to breather and your feet have got wet from condensation. The big rubber rand wouldn't help with that either. Or of course you may have a faulty Gore-Tex booty.
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Jon, thanks a lot for your feed back - not to mention your willingness to TEST the boot LIVE! I will let you know about my retailer's reaction as soon as I get it. They were going to send it back to the importer, this was about 1 week ago and I haven't any news yet. Are you saying that if the gore liner becomes covered with water it does not work anymore? That would mean that the fabric above the gore MUST also be waterproof or at least to some extent?
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Jon, I forgot the essential question: after your test, how was the INSIDE of the boot?
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The inside of the boot is dry, well, so far. I know when Gore and Gore-approved factories test boots, they use a machine that simulates walking in water and flexes the boot repeatedly under water. That'll make sure the waterproof booty inside the boot is watertight. If the outer gets soaked, it means the Gore-Tex membrane is trying to shift moisture from a damp environment inside, to a completely saturated one outside, so it's not going to happen - the same thing happens with Gore-Tex clothing - and you then get condensation inside the boot. Your feet can generate something like half a pint of water over a day's walking, so it's a fair bit to shift.
You can have similar issues if the construction of the boot is wrong, with non-breathable material in the uppers and too much glue. The big rubber rand on the Cristallo won't help much either. Boots generally come with some sort of water resistant finish from the factory and need re-treating regularly, but the suede and fabric on the ones I have does seem to wet easily.
So that's a possible explanation, though it could simply be a fault with the waterproof booty - unlikley on both sides, I'd have thought - or construction. Be interesting to see what comes back from the manufacturer.
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ok, thanks for the explanations, will keep you posted!
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Hmmm... a few hours later and not only is the outer fabric/suede very damp, but the inside is also damp. I'm wondering whether there's a problem with the construction, specifically the stitching - seems wet along the stitch lines on the inside of the boot almost as if they've stitched through the boot liner or the tape has failed. That's just off the top of my head, but they do seem to have an issue, there's dampness along the internal seams that shows on tissue paper. Hmmm...
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I suppose the other option is that because the outer fabric has wetted out and there's no PU layer on the Gore-Tex booty/liner, then you might get reverse osmosis across the membrane. The suede / fabric upper behaves a bit like there's no DWR btw, which won't help.
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well, well... in your experience, does this happen with other GTX boots with only suede and fabric on top? By the way what is DWR? Still no news from the retailer, I will contact them this Saturday, and if necessary will use this thread to help in the discussion. More news on Monday probably.
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DWR - Durable Water Repellant coating, it's the treatment applied to fabrics and materials which makes water bead on contact and prevents them, for a time anyway, from wetting out. The uppers of the Cristallo seem to absorb water pretty fast. I don't think the water is wicking over the top because the dampness appears to have spread from the stitching lines. Fwiw, skin can't detect damp, only cold, but if you use some tissue, you'll be able to tell the difference. I don't think this is a general issue with suede/fabric/GTX-lined boots or Gore's tests - rows of boots continually being flexed in a water tank by mechanical feet - would pick it up. Then again, I'm not in the habit of submerging boots in basins of water for an hour. I'll pop a different boot under water later on and see what happens 
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My local retailer told me that they have to test returns of Gore-tex lined footwear by filling the boot with water to see what leaks OUT, rather than submerge the boot in water to see what leaks IN. I tried this technique recently with a pair of leaking Keen Targhees (I know it's not the same manufactuer or membrane) and they also leaked along most lines of stitching (plus there was a near-fountain from around the toe bumper)
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Out of curiosity, I fill both boots with water, each half of the pair. One, the one that leaked from the outside in has sopping wet outers where water has clearly escaped, the other is dry on the outside bar a small smear at the bottom of the tongue area. I'm thinking on that basis that the first boot, the one that was in the basin yesterday, is faulty. The second seems fine though.
I'm not sure what that says, though:
1. The liner in one of the pair seems to be faulty.
2. The uppers do wet out very quickly regardless.
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 meindl used to (dunno if they still do) that their boots were waterproof only up to the level of the gore tex sock. prodding the insides a lot indicated that the sock only came up slightly higher than a shoe. whilst no applicable in this case, could this lead to wet toes if water crept down between the boot layers?
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I don't know, I think I'll ask Philippe from Brasher From memory, there are two types of Gore booty and corresponding boot construction. One is a full sock, like, erm, a sock with taped seams. The the other is a sort of soleless construction with the sides of the sock being bonded to the sole of the boot during manufacture, so the sole forms the base of the waterproof compartment, if that makes sense. Water will follow any line of weakness, so if there's a faulty seam or join with the sole unit, it could well leak there I suppose.
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Very technical! As usual, something quite simple in theory (is this boot waterproof?) turns out a philosophical debate about the true meaning of "waterproof" in the mountain shoes industry. I can tell you another thing, straight out of the great outdoors testing laboratory: the day before the fatal walk with my new SCARPA GTX, I wore a pair of low GTX Salomon rambling shoes (the sort that you tighten by pulling a cord); well, the conditions were worse than the next day (rain AND wet grass), I had them on 2 hours in the morning and another two in the afternoon, and guess what: yep that's right, feet dry! I may add that my trousers were absolutely soaked from shoe level up to knees (still no gaiters...) Thanks for all the work, it seems these shoes DO have an issue: I wonder whether it may be the reason they haven't got back to me yet (they can't believe that the testing results are so poor!)
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They may have some sort of construction issue with a particular batch, it's hard to know. I'm going to stick to just wearing the right one for now 
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NEWS: shoe is being checked at factory, possible issue with the model, so it may be a flaw with a whole batch! more news in a few days.
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