I'm looking for some advice here. Our DofE award group is looking at buying a 17 seater minibus about 2-3 years old. We want to get the decision of model right because money we have fundraised over years doesn't grow on trees and it needs to last and not be too expensive to maintain.

Can anyone give me an idea of he running costs of a Ford Transit van and how reliable they are? We've got a large trailer full of kit to tow up hills and are wondering what the towing capabilities of transits are like with the different engines. The 100, 115ps engines.

 Any advice would be much appreciated.

To be honest.....I wouldnt do it!  I used to be involved in Scouts and currently with DoE and have looked at Transits/minibuses  several times over the years....and have decided against buying one at each point.

Issues are replacement cost/depreciation, servicing/MOTs etc etc, availability of drivers (most younger drivers do not have the entitlement to drive a LPV anymore....and need to do another test to get it (£400 at last costing) and will need to do another test for a trailer anyway......

We have stayed with hiring or using a local schools (which is available during the holidays) or using a local Community Transport one.  Looks dear for each trip, but works out cheap over the year. Currently we use the Community Transport one as that comes with a voluntary driver...so we make sure he has a good lunch!  Better for us leaders to as we can sleep on the way there and back!

Our problem is we are looking at over £7000 a year in hire costs for the amount of weekends we are out and we need a bus with a towbar. Normally we have 2 buses out for every activity.

Its the cost on the price of the trips which is the biggest factor, with the increase in fuel prices which of course impacts on the kids. Its deciding on the best thing to do.

Thanks for the advice though

Good luck with the deliberations.  £7000 a year sounds a lot, but do your sums very carefully as to running one....I think you might find £7k isnt that bad!  For instance, the last time I costed insurance, there wasnt a huge amount of change from £1000.......then there is the road tax and servicing................we have had to bite the bullet and charge the kids a reasonable amount.  We thought we would hit big issues.....and didnt!  The kids seem to relish raising the money for their own trip.

I/we (various committees etc) just couldnt get buying one to work out - even though hiring seems dead money.

Every user I know uses transits....and some have used other makes and come back to the Transit - so that probably tells you a lot!  I have driven the newest Transit as a Minibus....it is very long and then if you add a trailer as well.....huge! Any kind of manouvering is an issue.

One approach that some DoE groups I know of have tried (but I havent yet) is to use a minibus and a van with the van as the runaround/baggage van.  

Let me know what conclusion you come up with!

Trevor has a good point - Southport District Scouts did this some years ago.  Only snag was...under the then lottery regs, so it might be different now....the van had to be fitted with a disabled access lift, so no tow bar!

Have you looked at The Award website - last time I was on it there was some good advice. Also try The Scout Association website as they have a whole section devoted to minibuses etc.

Having been involved with a youth organisation for over 30 years transport is a major concern.To buy or not to buy is a big question that needs alot of thought and research.

cost to buy,insurance,breakbown cover, service costs,mot,tyres,replacing worn out parts.How many times is the vehicle going to be used,who can drive it,where can it be stored safely,where can it be properly serviced or repaired.Maintain records as to its mileage,fuel etc,Who is going to be the nominated person in charge.

not to buy -chat to a local hire firm and see if a deal can be done,local community transport,talk to other youth groups in your area to borrow,local industry may have a van not being used at weekends,police may have a van for youth work,local schools.

If you do decide to buy it has to be well maintained cos if an accident happens thats when s*** flies.

I was sent home from summer camp because of poor eyesight. I was the only camper who didn't see the skunk.

Dear Mom,
Our scout master told us all write to our parents in case you saw the flood on TV and worried. We are OK. Only 1 of our tents and 2 sleeping bags got washed away. Luckily, none of us got drowned because we were all up on the mountain looking for Chad when it happened. Oh yes, please call Chad's mother and tell her he is OK. He can't write because of the cast. I got to ride in one of the search & rescue jeeps. It was neat. We never would have found him in the dark if it hadn't been for the lightning. Scoutmaster Webb got mad at Chad for going on a hike alone without telling anyone. Chad said he did tell him, but it was during the fire so he probably didn't hear him.

Did you know that if you put gas on a fire, the gas can will blow up? The wet wood still didn't burn, but one of our tents did. Also some of our clothes. John is going to look weird until his hair grows back. We will be home on Saturday if Scoutmaster Webb gets the car fixed. It wasn't his fault about the wreck. The brakes worked OK when we left. Scoutmaster Webb said that a car that old you have to expect something to break down; that's probably why he can't get insurance on it. We think it's a neat car. He doesn't care if we get it dirty, and if it's hot, sometimes he lets us ride on the tailgate. It gets pretty hot with 10 people in a car. He let us take turns riding in the trailer until the highway patrolman stopped and talked to us.

Scoutmaster Webb is a neat guy. Don't worry, he is a good driver. In fact, he is teaching Terry how to drive. But he only lets him drive on the mountain roads where there isn't any traffic. All we ever see up there are logging trucks. 6:53 PM 02/03/2000 This morning all of the guys were diving off the rocks and swimming out in the lake. Scoutmaster Webb wouldn't let me because I can't swim and Chad was afraid he would sink because of his cast, so he let us take the canoe across the lake. It was great. You can still see some of the trees under the water from the flood. Scoutmaster Webb isn't crabby like some scoutmasters. He didn't even get mad about the life jackets. He has to spend a lot of time working on the car so we are trying not to cause him any trouble.

Guess what? We've all passed our first aid merit badges. When Dave dove in the lake and cut his arm, we got to see how a tourniquet works. Also Wade and I threw up. Scoutmaster Webb said it probably was just food poisoning from the leftover chicken. He said they got sick that way with the food they ate in prison. I'm so glad he got out and became our scoutmaster. He said he sure figured out how to get things done better while he was doing his time.

I have to go now. We are going into town to mail our letters and buy bullets.

Don't worry about anything. We are fine.

Love,
Cole

P.S. How long has it been since I had a tetanus shot?

On a more positive note though why not think of 'carbon offsetting schemes' for instance, for a very modern positive approach way for fundraising for a new minibus here.

Do you have a favourite UK band in your local area that tours around playing gigs for instance particularly, or a local company that tours a good deal, from a nearby regional base in your area, doing sales or something nationally perhaps even?

Try asking them if they would like to help out backing your van share vehicle emissions scheme project locally maybe! They offset some of their carbon footprint in vehicle travel emissions by sponsoring a little money towards your scheme; in return also for a little advertising logo on the van maybe, and the good postive publicity that will be gleaned too as well by featuring the story in the local newspapers. It will be very easy to get your local papers first on board, making it a story too even that you are embracing this modern idea of eco-sound fundraising for your Scouts group in this fashion. More and more folks are doing this now throughout Europe you know! Might be worth a while asking around at least, making approaches using headed official notepaper of course, so it can clearly be seen you are in fact the offical organisation requesting assistance in this way. As I say, you never know till you try it! Opportunity definitely now knocks in this particular respect of gleaning much needed funds for good causes I am most sure.

If you would like some no thrills advice then mail me direct.  I have worked in the commercial motor industry for over 12yrs selling VW, Ford & Iveco commecials (Including Minibuses).

One thing i havent seen you mention is contract hire.  You could probably get your annual costs down by a considerable sum (I could tell you tomorrow what they would be on wether Ford or VW) and leave the cash in the Bank (Not so good atm) gaining interest or something better than buying a bus.

I think we are going to leave the bus buying for the moment, especially with the costs involved and see what we can borrow from local schools and the council. Its the quietish season at the moment for DofE expeditions.

 I will however get writing some letters asking for sponsorship towards a bus (Thanks Trev). Banks would have been the most likely source but I'll try somewhere else like the band idea! If you don't ask you don't get.

 Thanks for all the advice!