I thought that the original soft shell was the Double P system, as pioneered by Buffalo: why no mention of it?
Most of the people I know still use it because their garments have lasted the test of time & hence have not got round to need to buy a replacement from one of the newer fabrics. If you go to a Polaris type event it still seems to be the garment of choice...
The Pertex outer fabric was key as it's windproofing was vital in this country where you were going to get wet & needed to protect yourself during those first minutes of drying out from further cooling, plus the fabric is one of the fasted drying fabrics I know (I still use those towels made from it)
What do you think?
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 I don't really think Buffalo is softshell just a variation on shelled fleece using fibre pile instead of fleece and has no stretch either. More to the point, it's not marketed as soft shell.
I'm also asuming that people are aware of Buffalo and its qualities.
It sort of underlines what a nonsense the whole catgory really is. The fabrics mentioned are the ones being touted as 'soft shell'. I'm not saying pile/Pertex isn't effective, it's a great UK winter combo, just that it's not generally described as soft shell.
I also ignored Patagonia's Regulator kit and Paramo... Stuff like the Patagonia Speed Ascent, which is my winter climbing jacket of choice btw, is really a sort of upmarket Buffalo with a more water resistant outer. It is sold as 'soft shell'. I dunno, there's no right answer because there's no cast iron definition beyond wind and water resistance.
There's a thread somewhere where I asked what people understood by the term 'soft shell' which simply underlines what a confusing thing it is.
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I think that stretch may be the big difference, all modern softshell fabrics have stretch, better in a closer fitted product. Also, the application of soft shell is toward more active people, therefore stretch does make more of a difference (be it a subtle one). But before some Paramo or Buffalo officianado shoots me down in flames, no I'm not suggesting that people who use either of these fabrics aren't active.
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 If, as suggested in the leading article, 'soft shell' is only a marketing term (a point I agree with), I think we can include a number of other fabrics as well. I take the term to mean a layer that gives good wind and water resistance, without recourse to a genuine, fully taped, waterproof solution.
As such I think we can include pile/pertex, and probably Ultrafleece/Karisma in the soft shell category. Just because Buffalo don't market them as such, doesn't mean that they aren't. Interestingly, the article mourning the end of Ultrafleece quotes ME as saying that people we moving towards soft shells instead. Err... well then, why not just market Ultrafleece as a soft shell, for that is indeed what it is?
Having tried PowerShield compared to Montane's Duratherm (a brushed Karisma, as far as I can tell), I find the latter lighter, warmer and more wind resistant. I'm not convinced by PowerShield. Also, the close-fitting nature of such garments means that there is very little dead air, which probably helps to explain why the PowerShield jacket felt cooler.
The lack of stretch in other fabrics can be overcome to a large extent by the use of a careful cut. Microfibre fabrics such as Pertex are so lacking in bulk that the additional material required to allow easy movement doesn't result in bulkiness under the arms (for instance).
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 Hey CP, are you the Captain Paranoia from RT?
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 I always assumed that anything designed to be a weather proof outer garment that doesn't rely on plastic membranes is a soft-shell. Therefore including companies like Paramo as Soft-Shell. As others have said, it's just a marketting term really - so Soft shell is exactly what you want it to be...
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err...yes, that's me :-)
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Just bears out what I was saying, the term 'soft shell' is pretty meaningless. Ultrafleece is somewhere on the borders between what is and isn't SS. I'd say it isn't, just a fleece that's above average in terms of wind resistance.
FWIW Powershield is considerably more wind resistant than Ultrafleece, though not as efficient in terms of insulation in still conditions I think.
What's RT then capn p? And beware, as Hunter S Thompson once said of Nixon, even paranoids have real enemies...
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Since I haven't seen or conducted any formal wind resistance tests of the two fabrics (yet...), I can only go on how the garments feel. Duratherm has a longer knap than Ultrafleece (I suspect it isn't as closely trimmed after weaving), which is brushed. I think this provides additional wind resistance.
PowerShield to me is just a shelled fleece, only not as windproof as Pertex. It's a nylon/elastane shell, after all. I wonder if it will behave like PowerStretch; the tights I use to cycle in wore thin in the bum, due to the fleece wearing out, not the face. Exit otherwise good tights...
So, are the Pertex/microfleece things like Marmot's DriClime, ME's Microtherm, TNF Bilayer, BH Fury, Montane Krypton, etc. soft shells? I think they are ;-)
My preferred 'soft shell' is actually just simple, individual fleece and windproof/water resistant layers. The most flexible layering system, allowing you four combinations, and the ability to select the fleece layer to suit the conditions.
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It doesn't really matter whether they're soft shell or not since everything is and nothing is depending on how far you're prepared to move the goalposts...
Call me paranoid. No whoops, don't, that's your name.
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I don't understand this soft shell Concept. For years I have worn on good weather days a Base layer (usually Lowe or Berghaus) and if the weather was good/dry a Berghaus Windshirt. If it was colder a Polartec 100 fleece would go underneath the windshirt. I would keep my shell in the rucsac in case it rained. Therefore would my base layer and windproof top be classed as soft shell. If so have we not been wearing softshell for years and this "Softshell" is just a marketing gimmick for us to part with more pennies.
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 FWIW when Patagonia started selling their Infurno Jacket - basically a buffalo with better tailoring - they credited scottish climbers with inventing the concept in their catlogue, acknowledging that there were situations when trad layering systems were not ideal. IIRC it was the scottish climber Hamish Hamilton who invented Buffalo.
Well he invented the Buffalo clothing system, rather than the large shaggy beast of the North American plains anyway.
Scott - I think you understand the soft shell system perfectly, because you're doing it already. In the same way Patagonia market their regulator layers with a windproof shell over...
Maybe a softshell is anything that isn't a hard shell. I've always classed my Montane Buffalo clone as a form of soft shell anyway.
Similarly, would a down suit with pertex windshell be a soft shell? I guess so.
Lordy, it's confusing isn't it? But at least it works!
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 I once wore a Buffalo next to the skin, with a wet suit over the top, and then did a river walk (in which I was submerged in the icey cold water of a Snowdonian river (I forget which!))
Stayed warm and snug inside. Was very impressed by the system which kept me warm even though it was soaked through.
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 A dry suit would have been even better :-)
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Yeah but a helluvalot more expensive...
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Is a dry suit soft shell?
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 Yes, but only with a woolly bear underneath ;-)
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 no, because most drysuits at the moment are not breathable in any way, (unless you spend hundreds and hundreds of pounds, although they are coming down in price) leading to a puddle of sweat in the booties, and soggy pants when you are active for a while.
From the pile of pennies left above, surely a soft shell relies on its breathability to facilitate drying out so fast.
So, Drysuit, exit stage right from this soft shell argument....
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I don't see that that disqualifies it. I'm a strong believer that anything and everything is actually soft shell now. Except most items which are sold as being soft shell of course.
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Tomatoes are soft shell for example, also bananas, handkerchiefs and armadillos. If we poke enough ridicule at soft shell maybe the concept will go away?
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