 And there on the home page was our own Dave Mycroft. Bet you got a pair to try out, how where they and if so what did you get?
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 Lol, as it happens I haven't Simon........ I was offered but declined as at the time I wasn't in a position to do a review. From what I've seen they look comparable to Merrells 
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 That bad eh?
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 so whats the connection to inov8?
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 rob s. I don' t think it's in the design
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no but there is some, can't remember whether ex-emploee or what else
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Well if I was asked, I'd give them a good thrashing around the Brecon Beacons. Lets hoping eh
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 Someone else labouring under the misapprehension that waterproof necessarily equals "good" for approach shoes. Sigh.
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Not me, my terrocs certainly aren't waterproof and I use these most of the year round, even in the snow this year but event may be good for the wetter weather when you need it.
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Someone else labouring under the misapprehension that waterproof necessarily equals "good" for approach shoes. Sigh. So what's wrong with waterproof approach shoes? I'm perfectly happy with my Merell Chameleon II GTX and would rather use them than my old non-waterproof approach shoes.
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 I got very wet feet yesterday, and I was out for about 8 1/2 hours. Smartwool socks and liners kept my feet nice and warm. For me, it's the way forward. Forget drying to keep yer feet dry, just keep them warm and you'll be ok! My opinion, anyway...
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 Nothing wrong with them just so long as you never go anywhere with water above ankle deep So for casual walking in decent trails with wet grass etc they might even be useful. Just so long as you don't mind your shoes taking weeks to dry, getting too hot for some, having a fragile membrane built in or for that matter the extra cost involved..... With various forms of waterproof sock for when they're really needed its just not difficult is it? Clearly it is 
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 There's nowt wrong with waterproof approach shoes per se, but.... First, there are plenty of walking destinations where waterproofing is an irrelevance and the membrane will only increase the chance of hot, sweaty feet. Second, I may have just been unlucky but I've never had a waterproof shoe where the membrane has lasted, and then you're left with none of the advantages and all the disadvantages. Third, the membrane may be good if you could guarantee to keep water out of the inside in the first place, but the low cut of a shoe doesn't help here - not easy to seal well with gaiters, scope for rain and puddles/bogs to get in over the top, and once it's in it's in. To me membranes make more sense in footwear that's at least a 'mid' cut. Personally, I've now found that goretex socks (not Sealskinz) over my usual Smartwools inside a non-lined shoe is a far more effective and cost-effective solution. I'm even getting more use out of failed membrane mids that way . Now if waterproof shoes suit you then that's fine, but I'm with the folk who wish that manufacturers would acknowledge that not everybody wants that and give us the choice.
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I have come to the impression that a certain -Tex membrane has major durability issues in footwear (mentioning no names). I have a pair of Asolo Flame GTX and although a good boot seemed to let in water after less than a month. Having said that I did take them out for over a week backpacking straight out of the box (literally bought them just before the shops closed the day before I set off). The boot itself relies on the membrane for waterproofness so if it leaks it must be the membrane at fault surely!? I now walk in sealskin socks and these boots or an old pair of punteras (the mark 1 versions). The seal skins are great in winter to stop the wind blowing straigt through my punteras. Never thought the wind would blow quite so freely through the punteras as they are not the really open mesh shoes. Can anyone comment on which membrane is best for footwear in terms of performance and longevity? Whatever happened to Sympatex?
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I don't have anything much against waterproof shoes as long as there's some scope for alternatives. I don't want to be forced to pay extra for something I don't want and which, on at least some days and in some conditions, will reduce their comfort. Note in my original moan the use of the word "necessarily". They're good some of the time, yes. But not all of the time. Pete.
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 Can anyone comment on which membrane is best for footwear in terms of performance and longevity? Whatever happened to Sympatex?
Altberg use sympatex in their boots
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I think a lot of the issues with goretex lined approach shoes and boots comes down to how appropriate they are for the activity. I've used lined approach shoes for about 5 years now, and with the one exception where I stepped in water that was too deep they've never failed. Likewise I've have a pair of lined AKU boots for 7 years, and the membrane still works perfectly. Third, the membrane may be good if you could guarantee to keep water out of the inside in the first place, but the low cut of a shoe doesn't help here - not easy to seal well with gaiters, scope for rain and puddles/bogs to get in over the top, and once it's in it's in. To me membranes make more sense in footwear that's at least a 'mid' cut.
That's the point.......it doesn't matter what you wear on your feet if you're going to go in too deep. Choose the footwear that's appropriate to the activity and location. Now if waterproof shoes suit you then that's fine, but I'm with the folk who wish that manufacturers would acknowledge that not everybody wants that and give us the choice.
I totally agree, choice is vital.
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I've had wet feet in membrane shoes plenty of times even when there's no way I've gone in over the top of the shoe! Dave, when you say ".... a lot of the issues with goretex lined approach shoes and boots comes down to how appropriate they are for the activity", it leaves me a bit puzzled. Other than water or bog too deep for the shoe, what sort of activity would you see as appropriate or inapproriate for a waterproof trail shoe? (Nb. more as opposed to a non-membrane shoe, i.e. not meaning to open upa massive shoe vs boot debate... )
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 I've got a pair of Raichle approach shoes with a GTX liner that I wear on an everyday basis and they can't even pretend to be waterproof. Why not?
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 some people have never had a problem with texy lined footwear, me for one and dave for another it seems. some people always have problems with them. would that not indicate that perhaps the fit or the way the shoe is worn is wearing holes in the membrane? terrocs and smartwool are a great combination when soaking wet. the combination fails miserably if you have to sit around waiting for a train for half an hour in the cold though. the rocky goretex socks are excellent fro colder days.
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