Surely the cost of parking at pen y pass can fund the cost of the sherpa bus ! No doubt the profit s being used to line someones pockets. People should not be allowed to own land in a nation park and use it to make personal gain where access is concerned.
Thats my opinion.
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 I would hope that if Snowdonia National Park Authority and Gwynedd Council are going to provide some parking spaces around the Pen-y-Gwryd junction that they will also create a proper footpath upto Pen-y-Pass to address the road safety issues of people walking along the road between these locations.
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There is a path from the pen y gwyrd area too pen y pass.
It handrails the road down below, but never seems to be utilized.
I guess thats because people always want the easy option.
If I require a parking space I arrive early or use the park and ride.
The National Park should focus on free guided tours or something to keep the tourists and day trippers happy.
Some people just want to enjoy the scenery.
The authorities should make tourists feel welcome they raise revenue!
Thanks too North Wales Police they usually leave with some sort of speeding ticket as a reminder of their stay.
In my opinion they should stop people parking on the grass at
pen y gwyrd or atleast level off and tidy up the grass verge.
A few years back they stopped people parking on the sides of the road from pen y pass towards llanberis!
The worst case scenario is that they spend money putting a man made surface on the verge, then start charging too park on it.
Its not going to be done for free!
The outdoors is all about freedom!
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 isn't the problem cars rather than parking. stop cars parking on the road and verges but would that entail painting yellow lines everywhere?. put in proper car parking - 90 cars? not enough. put in more. raise more money. provide very cheap, proper, regular and efficient bus services erm...just like they manage their tourist sites elsewhere in europe i.e. professionally.
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There is a massive car park down the pass towards llanberis.
People are just too lazy too use the park and ride.
Its meant to be a national park not a car park!
I think people will realize one day that our small island is overpopulated, we cant even grow enough food too sustain our own population, never mind park our cars.
Lucking Snowdonia is in a fairly remote part of the UK and people will visit if they are dedicated too the outdoors.
The next thing you know, you will want a motorway to get here.
Where will you park then?
The UK should close its doors unless you are a skilled individual that can offer a service too the country, like down under.
Very proud too have been born in the land of my fathers!
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 I hardly think that Snowdoina parking is an immigration issue. Grief!! 
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 hmmm... ... and... we can grow enough food to feed ourselves, we'd just rather not exist on potatoes and bread. my father has trained hundreds of people from india and africa, who weren't 'skilled' at the time. you'll be bloody grateful they became so next time you're in an operating theatre though.
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"People are just too lazy too use the park and ride." that's because parking is a) too cheap or b) available or c) the "ride" is crap or all three. "people will visit if they are dedicated too the outdoors." you obviously haven't looked at the visitor figures. outdoorsy types are in the minority by a large margin. it's all the typical british malaise of counting the cost of everything without considering its value. do they have a tourist "council"? does it have any power? if not, why not on both counts. it's typical "conservationists" who mask the problems in the fog of the zealotry of sanctimonious self-righteousness. hardly surprising nobody takes any notice. nobody talks to anyone else and nobody cooperates with anyone else to formulate a proper plan rather than the usual in-squabbling between different parties each with their own ideas. a bleedin' shambles. or to any visitor, a typical british (or welsh if you're that picky) bleedin' shambles.
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| Edited: 01/05/09 17:03 |
Hey please don't take it the wrong way,its not a discrimination issue.
Were very grateful to people that contribute to society.
At the moment its seems there is a strain on the infrastructure.
Which includes parking at the national parks.
We cant sustain out own population with home grown food.
They fill the fields full of rape seed when we should be growing food!
Its a small island and I get the impression its overcrowded.
"no where to park"
If you want too park in a city, you need a permit or you have too pay. It would be very sad if the country side was exactly same.
Well said "parky again"!
Visitors should be catered for in a more professional way.
A sherpa bus is not a very good first impression.
Don't know how they work out that the outdoors type are a minority?
There will come a day when we will have to parachute in and canoe out ha ha hope so anyway.
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"Don't know how they work out that the outdoors type are a minority?" getting the train up and down wouldn't suggest an "outdoorsy" type. last figures that seem to stick are 300,000 visitors. roughly divided into thirds. one third "outdoorsy", one third out for a stroll, one third on the train. as a "national" park it is open to anyone at anytime so you can not impose restrictions on any one section of society (waits for the expected...) numbers and the "experience" can be managed effectively though. well, if anyone could be arsed to. they can't be bothered in the lakes so what chance does snowdon stand. so much easier to just sit around, thumbs firmly fixed, and whinge about their own personal aesthetics and "cost" instead of putting their heads together to come up with a proper plan. i'm sure snowdon and its surrounding area would be vital in national food production plans. "If you want too park in a city, you need a permit or you have too pay. It would be very sad if the country side was exactly same. " why?
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| Edited: 01/05/09 20:01 |
I would like to know when they are going to put something in at Pen-y-Pass for me to lock my bicycle to, I would have thought the money from parking charges would have paid for some bicycle parking.
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 Well, as usual those opposing these plans have contradicted themselves with their "soundbite" statements. They say they have come out strongly against the plans saying that 'pouring concrete' over protected landscapes is not on. My understanding is that they will not be doing that, but using the "grasscrete" honeycomb blocks that allow vegetation to grow through and if anything it will in fact protect the very landscape they refer to by preventing the erosion caused by ruts being formed by cars illegally parking on grassy verges. It has got to look better than large muddy ruts hasn't it. The other thing they have wrong to is the criticism of the WAG for killing the subsidies to loss making bus services. At a time of extreme economic pressures, why should Welsh tax payers subsidise tourists when we can't even get ambulances to people due to extreme underfundng of the Health services? It is a matter of priorities and tourists should pay they own way for the privilidge that is the outdoors! At least charging for parking may help to subsidise the public transport in the area, but then, isn't that a self defeating objective, if you encourage too many out of their cars, where will the funding come from then? If they were to have any chance of filling the buses, the fares would have to be so cheap that even full, they would still be a loss making endevour! They could I suppose set up more speed Scameras in the area and subsidise PT that way I suppose, but even that is not so assured now that they have finally got shot of Brunstrom!
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| Edited: 02/05/09 01:45 |
stop cars parking on the road and verges but would that entail painting yellow lines everywhere?.
Not necessary Parky.
Illegal parking on grass verges can be covered under local council byelaws, and it would require no lines on the road, just a few strategic signs in the borough, although to be fair I am not certain if Gwynedd CC has such a byelaw and if they do whether they ever enforce it? It is also an offence under the Road Traffic Act to drive a vehicle on common land without the consent of the owner.
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| Edited: 02/05/09 02:03 |
I for one do not want pay to park every where!
The Outdoors is all about freedom ! ! !
Lets hope the bonus of being able to park at pen y pass will fund the
grass verge reconstruction.
They should have a suitable coach that runs regular in the summer and take the strain off the shrepa. It gets too overcrowded.
Bearing in mind most people carry a daysack!
The sherpa is the right size for low season but I'm sure there is a more suitable version of that type of vehicle too fill the role.
The park is a national treasure and it should be shown off !
Who wants to ride on an old bus, I wonder if it runs on a green fuel?
Too be honest the pen y pass area need redevelopment in my opinion.
The YHA could do with catching up with the 20 century.
Although its steeped in history, its not really a place that leaves a lasting impression. They have sold YHA property in the past and its a shame that the said YHA building has not been re-developed.
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 The Sherpa gets too overcrowded? Which service have you been using?! I've been using the Sherpa buses at least once a week for the last five years to access the mountains and generally they're dead. The Llanberis - Pen y Pass link is the busiest service but the others are much less used. It's understandable the funding will expire shortly if no one uses the service. The buses are poorly planned and thought out. They are supposed to link up but there isn't enough space written into the timetables for them to link if one is late. They aren't well advertised, and should link up with places like Bangor railway station. For people coming into the park from Bangor there is only one direct bus at 7:40am. After that people have to use local services to get to Bethesda and wait there, and, let's face it, Bethesda is hardly the most pleasant place to wait around if you're a tourist. The summer timetable is now in force, but the timetables weren't even updated on the ground until a few weeks later. That will just give tourists the impression the buses are either late or simply not turning up which will deter them from using them again. To get to Nant Gwynant from Bethesda in the morning used to be quick, but now involves an hour or so waiting for a connection at the PyG Inn. The last buses are too early. A 6pm departure from Ogwen is too early, and the last bus from Pen y Pass to Llanberis is 6:45pm. In summer there are hours of light available for an evening walk or climb. Nope, the service is useless. I don't drive, but if I did I wouldn't think twice about driving into the park after the stress of dealing with the Sherpa buses.
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I try to use the sherpa at weekends for obvious reasons, but the early bus Saturday morning is always overcrowded !
You raised some good points Mike.
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Speaking to various people in local organisations, and I like the proposed idea of doing frequent shuttle ones (which I suppose is what the Llanberis Pass bus is). So a bus from Bangor to Ogwen regularly, to meet one from Ogwen to Betws also running frequently. That would give much more freedom to get around.
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 ....... why should Welsh tax payers subsidise tourists .......? Well, isn't the idea generally that taxpayer subsidies go to creating an infrastructure to support a tourist economy which then attracts tourists into an area and creates economic benefit for that area on account of all the additional things the tourists do pay their way with? As Parky has said earlier, that's certainly the idea in many continental destinations. As he, and Mike above, have also made clear though, it needs doing well with an overall plan and some decent co-ordination in order to work......
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"why should Welsh tax payers subsidise tourists " why should anybody "subsidise tourists"? a prime of example of "cost" on a single element of the whole whilst ignoring the "value" of the whole. a shortsighted and self-defeating view that is prevalent in this country. ok, so everyone drives there. where do they park? why deny those who do or cannot drive access? alienate nice overseas tourists with lots of money to spend? "I for one do not want pay to park every where!
The Outdoors is all about freedom ! ! !" not if you can't get anywhere because the roads are choked with cars or if you can get somewhere you can't park. what's the solution? again just one element of the whole. and why everywhere? the subject is snowdon. suddenly a specific subject is expanded to everywhere. sonwdon is a national park which is a major tourist attraction whether you like the idea or not. it attracts a large number of people and attracts them in ways that the area cannot cope with the numbers. how do you get them in there and out of there? how can you get them to part with their money whilst they are there? other countries manage this simple problem very well indeed because they understand tourism, the cost of and value of tourism and how to profit from tourism without ripping off the source of income. the lakes are just as bad. the shambles there would be unheard of elsewhere.
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| Edited: 02/05/09 13:31 |
I do realise the "catch 22" situation with regard to tourists and that encouraging them into an area "should" benefit local business (although not always and certainly not to a great extent) which in theory therefore enables them to pay the taxes on thier businesses that "should" be ploughed back into subsidising (again not always the case) My views are not that simplex or naive. BUT, (and it is a BIG but) at times like these, when you have cancer patients dying for lack of funding for life saving drugs, when you have seriously sick patients in Mid, West and North Wales travelling 200 miles for an outpatient appointment due to lack of provision, when you have serious burns casualties waiting 1.5 hours for an Ambulance due to bed shortages in hospitals, you can forgive Welsh tax payers for thinking that there are greater priorities at the moment than subsidising rual bus services that no one is going to use due to the convenience of the car! I have of course approached this purely from the angle of the abortion (pun intended) that is the Welsh Health service, but there are many other claims on tax payers money ahead in the queue for funding, like the creation of REAL jobs for example, not those menial tasks in tourism that are so poorly paid that even the Eastern Europeans are refusing them now! We HAVE to get our priorities right, and living basically in such financial times is the top one, anything else is a "nice" to have, and unfortunatley environmental issues are another potential casualty of the times when they are not so prosperous. It is ironic isn't it, "when I were a lad" public transport was the ONLY way to get around, my parents NEVER drove a car in their lives, and the standards of affluence of society never aspired to running a luxery like a car, but these days, owning and using one is considered to be a basic principle of life! BUT, even then whilst the fares for PT were reasonable proportionate to the earnings of the populace, it was heavily subsidised, and the illustation to prove that was the decimation of the UK rail network by the then Dr Beeching, an almost criminal act of massive proportions that no one saw the far reaching consequences of at the time. Of course, at the time we were subsidising a nationally owned public company, and that is another thing that grates with taxpayers, well certainly me, I don't mind my hard earned subsidising public/community services, even at a loss, but I have a fundamental aversion to subsidising the lifestiles of share holders in PRIVATE companies!
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| Edited: 02/05/09 15:00 |
