Walking and Climbing

I'm more than a bit sceptical about this one.

It looks like Rab just took a stitch-through down jacket (which one could argue was a copy of someone else's design) and slung a lightweight eVent shell over the top. To my mind, that's less useful than having the two separate items and makes few savings in weight (only obvious one being that there's only one set of zips, hood drawcord etc).

If you take a look at the Crux Plasma for comparison, the Rab ceases to look like a good option (unless the Crux doesn't fit or won't work with your helmet of course)...

Side by side: + / -

Crux : Box Wall / Rab : Stitch Through

Crux : eVent bonded to baffles so no interior face fabric and better breathability / Rab : stitch through jacket with another layer thrown over the top.

Crux : 165g of down (750EU) / Rab 140g of down (750... used to say 650EU/750US so I can only suppose this is the ??? US measurement??)

Crux : Total weight 525g / Rab 600g (i.e. functionally 100g heavier as there's less down in the Rab).

Crux : riri Aquazip / Rab storm flaps and water resistant zips

Rab : Helmet compatible wired hood / Crux : wired visor but not specified to be helmet compatible

Rab : rrp £250 / Crux rrp £275

I'll freely admit that I'm a fan of Crux. But I was also a great fan of Rab up until recently. It just seems to me that they've lost their edge and are playing copycat games often with design or material shortcuts. OK - the RRP is a guide and Rab is often sold for less than that... whereas the Crux counterexample is generally harder to find on sale. But even so the £25 difference gets you a massively better specced jacket IMO and I know which I'd rather have.

Still... there's a job going in the design department so perhaps someone would like to pick up the gauntlet and put them back where they should be!!!

I'm not sure Rab are playing 'copycat games' - if they are, then so is pretty much everyone else in the industry, there's not much out there that's genuinely innovative, most new products are variations on an existing theme.

As far as the Crux / Rab comparison goes, surely the point is that the Crux jacket is designed for use at significantly lower temperatures. The point of the micro-baffled down stuff is that it isn't as warm. I can think of a few times when I'd have considered using the Rab jacket for actual active climbing when the the Crux would probably be too warm.

Realistically, eVent-shelled down jackets are quite specialist things and I reckon a fair few will see most of their action on the way to the pub and back in winter, at which point all arguments are off

Intruiging about the pub folk - I wonder if the somewhat greater practicality for wandering round town will outweigh the fact it doesn't 'look' like a down jacket?!

Jon,

I take your point - ideas in the outdoors industry move around in all directions and there's nothing wrong with that as it gives us the choice of size, price and detail that we might not otherwise get if everything was under patent control.  

It's my opinion (and nothing more) that Rab was once a brand that others looked to for inspiration but now it is globally successful and well known it has understandibly focussed on commercial return and has lost some of that purity of spirit that Rab himself was known for. 

My point in comparing the two products is that, on the face of it, they both fall into similar price and weight brackets and make similar claims about intended use. If the Crux succeeds in being warmer, lighter and only a fraction more expensive then Rab's got something wrong IMHO. Surely if it's too warm for a 165g fill down jacket (which really isn't that much by comparison to many other brands) then you're moving out of the down sweet-spot anyway and swapping for a less efficient design doesn't strike me as making much sense. Why not just wear less or use something other than down if it's too warm for the intended purpose?

I'm not trying to knock Rab as a whole; I've several much loved bits of Rab kit in the cupboard and consider the brand name synonymous with no nonsense, good quality gear. But if, as I suspect, they are trying to sell products on slightly false pretenses (removing reference to the EU measurement of their down for example) then I'd like to voice that suspicion and see what other users have to say. 

John Burley wrote (see)

....whistles to himself to see if Jon notices he replied...

More generally, I'd agree with Mike that it seems pretty decent in light rain though I wouldn't  want to wear it when it's really bucketing down because I think eventually the down would get wet, if only via the neck opening. In UK conditions I'd generally opt for a synthetic fill anyway, what the Microlight Alpine does give you is a bit more leeway if it does rain unexpectedly. Would also be good in those weird melting cascade conditions you sometimes get climbing water ice in the Alps, I think.

Primaloft with a Windstopper or eVent shell would be interesting... Ah, Haglofs for next winter?

Hi Neil,

I am interested! Actually, the Rab is for sale in France (Intersport Igloo in Toulouse) so someone must be persuaded...