I realise that the Quito is supposedly to be used in more moderate temperatures, but was wondering whether anyone has yet used one in winter conditions?
I have an Alta II jacket which I find too hot and too heavy. I was hoping to be able to replace it with the Quito. I want to be able to go backpacking in very cold or very wet conditions.
I like the full venting possibilities of this garment which seems to make it more versatile than the Velez Adventure Light.
For winter, you can't cover any of the face with the hood, it is not big enough to pull down above the forehead and can't pull up above the chin, and as Jon's review it is not long at the back. In cold conditions you will be colder than other Paramo jackets.
Obviously you can stretch into winter via warm trousers and can cover face in other ways, but my view is this is more a 3-season than a 4-season jacket, which actually probably makes it more versatile.
Due to the thin fabric, it does roll up small, my Quito large its not much bigger rolled than my small Marmot Aegis shell which has comparable hood+venting.
Why on earth they made it short in the torso and so baggy in the middle is something that only makes sense to the pixies which skip and dance around the Paramo design team after their special lunchtime mushroom soop.
I only tried the Quito on in the shop, but I'd agree with Nigel in that for me the hood means that it's no way a jacket for full winter mountain conditions.
Whereas I've had my Velez Adventure Light since June (have had Aspira smock for 10 years and standard Velez for 4) and am becoming more and more satisfied through use that it'll provide winter levels of protection. I reckon the hood is as protective as the Aspira and better then the standard Velez. I'm going to test it out further as winter progresses but right now I'm thinking it'll go with me to Norway in March for ski-touring, which is the job the Aspira has served splendidly for the last 10 years.
The Quito hood is better than the Velez hood for cycling. It is light and turns with the head and it is cut away at the sides for better visibility. I suggest the Quito extends into warmer conditions but not so for winter conditions. The Velez is also more suited to backpack winter conditions to the smock and the low side zips allowing the packs hip belt to thread thru.
Another way to express is the Quito better suits urban life and less suits winter altitude life.
So, the considered opinion seems to be that the Quito is probably more suited to everyday use, dog walking and three season outdoor use and the Velez Adventure Light more suited to full on harsh, cold or wet conditions - partly due to its hood providing more protection ?
Is there suficient venting options with the Velez Adventure Light ? One of the major advantages (in my opinion) of the Quito is the huge underarm and torso vents - do people get too hot with the Velez Adventure Light - I know it is lighter than the "standard" analogy fabrics - and I like the versatility of the smock design for walking, backpacking, cycling and running - but is it still too hot ??
Hi C.O.M. I've been using the VAL since it came out. On a wintery, windy day today in the Cairngorms, with a Mountain Top underneath, we had to use the side vents on the walk in and in a sheltered area.
However, at the top of the hill we also put on Torres gilets to make it a bit cosier and kept them on on the way down until we got back to a more sheltered spot, where we ditched the gilets, but kept the smocks on.
I am now beginning to think that after all, the VAL may well be more of an all round garment than the Quito, as I originally said, my Alta II seems just too hot.
I have recently bought a Fuera smock, which is exceptionally versatile, and have a torres gillet also - so hopefully I can be prepared for all conditions.
I use Cascada trousers, but tend to be very warm again - hmm - surely I cannot justify new VAL trousers too ?
The Alta 2 was my first Paramo jacket a few years ago and I thought it was great at the time, if a bit heavy, voluminous and warm. Since then, I bought the Vasco and original Velez Adventure. The Adventure was good enough to make me sell the other two, as I didn't need anything else, but the VAL improves on that because of the weight, so the Adventure went as well.
I now only have the VAL, Fuera Smock, and Torres Gilet, which I reckon covers me year round.
I never found the Cascadas too hot because of the zips, but I wouldn't wear them on a dry summer's day. If you wear them a lot, as I do, you don't need all the extra material of the Alta 2, as there's too much unnecessary overlap and weight. That's where the relatively short VAL and Quito score, because you're well protected in rain, snow and wind as long as you wear Paramo trousers.
Someone said that the overlap between trousers and the new light jackets was too short, but I've found that the waistbelt on your rucksack helps to prevent wind and rain from blowing up there and haven't had a problem.
Thank you again for your help and advice. I think your comments about cascada trousers combined with a lighter weight top do make sense, it is certainly overkill to combine them with the Alta II.
I have tried to research both lightweight tops (obviously the Quito is brand new, so has not really been tested yet). The reviews of the VAL are very good - assuming that the lightweight outer is robust enough (as it seems to be) to survive normal wear and tear (as opposed to wreckless abuse), then I think that the VAL will be my next purchase, and I may well try to sell the Alta II.
The VAL has more fabric at the front than the Quito. The VAL has the button-up over the zip at the top which provides more front-protection, and the VAL has the upper outer pouch and a lower inner full-width hand-warmer. The Quito has just a basic front zip and no insulation from pockets. When cycling or walking into wind, the Quito is cooler on the body than the VAL. Whilst I've not had leakage issues, I would expect the VAL to resist front heavy rain for longer than the the Quito due to the button-up front top and the lower smock.
Smocks are harder to take on/off in the urban environment but just dandy for many hours outdoors. Jackets unzip and off more easily and of you don't remove at least a full zip opens up for max ventilation. Horses-for-courses rather than "better" "worse" points.
So I'd say Quito suits more urban and warmer temperatures than the VAL. Many find Paramo too-warm and the Quito helps in that regard but I'd suggest not really a 4-season inclusive of winter altitude.
Whilst the Quito is shorter than the VAL (not sure how much by, I don't have side-by-side option) I don't think that particularly impacts insulation, so I suggest its really just the VAL has more fabric and layers on the front than the Quito to conduct less cold to the torso and resist rain better.
To be fair, Paramo has never suggested that the Quito is anything other than a light-ish, multi-sport jacket, from their web site:
'This lightweight, close-fitting multi-activity jacket has been designed for high energy activities and warmer temperatures.'
The Velez Adventure Light is more of an all-rounder and as several posters have noted, has a slightly more protective hood. And, to be honest, although the Quito may in some ways be intended to work better on a bike, I still use a standard Velez Smock for winter mountain biking in preference.
Fit is a personal thing, but the Quito is cut on the loose side for this sort of jacket. As I understand it, Paramo kit works best when cut so there is some slack in the system, presumably so the fabric isn't under pressure from a tight fit. Unfortunately lightweight, fast-moving type jackets tend to work best with a snugger cut, which is a bit of a quandry for Paramo. As it stands, the Quito is too loose for, say, road cycling, where descending at speed leaves it billowing and lifting.
Obviously that's all relative to the wearer's build, but I'd love to see Paramo do a lightweight, slimmer-fitting jacket in addition to their current range. Incidentally, the Furtech kit is cut closer fitting and works on the same principles, so worth a look if you find Paramo generally too baggy.
A couple of other things, yes, the main zip has a stormflap behind it, albeit quite a narrow one, as do the vents. Seems to be sufficient. On the cut front, it is quite short and a bit boxy - reminds me of some of the shorter-cut TNF jackets I've used in the past. I don't have any problems with the cut at the front for running, biking etc, but I'd prefer a more pronounced drop-tail at the back.
The insulation thing is open to debate. The pump liner in the Quito and the Velez Adventure Light is the same as with other current Paramo garments, the difference in fabric weight comes from the outer shell fabric which is a lighter weight fabric with micro-grid rip-stop.
Some users say that they find the lighter fabric less warm, but logically insulation levels should be very similar and that's how I find it, though psychologically, the garment maybe 'feels' less protective because it has a less substantial feel. Of course there's also less jacket in terms of length, so that may also be a factor
Our Velez Adventure Light is being hammered long-term by a mate of mine and, so far, has given no cause for concern in the durability stakes.
COM, what Jon says applies to the Alta II as well, so not sure why you think you will be a lot cooler in one of the other Paramo jackets.
Out of interest what do you wear with your Alta II? I find mine is perfect in temps under around 12°C with just a baselayer. This weekend I wore mine with the Paramo Mountain Vent Pull-on and was fine in temperatures starting off around 3°C and probably getting as high as 7 or 8°C later on. It was also gusty and drizzly. I had the vents on the coat and baselayer open most of the day. I walk at a reasonable pace (did around 20km in four hours) and there were two ascents.
The insulation thing is open to debate. The pump liner in the Quito and the Velez Adventure Light is the same as with other current Paramo garments, the difference in fabric weight comes from the outer shell fabric which is a lighter weight fabric with micro-grid rip-stop.
Some users say that they find the lighter fabric less warm, but logically insulation levels should be very similar and that's how I find it, though psychologically, the garment maybe 'feels' less protective because it has a less substantial feel. Of course there's also less jacket in terms of length, so that may also be a factor
I'll repeat that there are issues other than the fabric weight, the Quito has less layers of fabric on the front torso, in use there is cooler from conduction than Velez.
I was out yesterday in changeable conditions, one other historical Paramo issue of weight has mean its more commonly a "wear all day" garment partly due to high breathability, good venting but also the weight. The lighter weight means its less volume and less weight to carry. Yesterday as sun came out, I didn't have backpack, I derobed and rolled and wore around the waist.
I'd agree lighter is better. It is better to have the weight saving and choose how you use that saving.
Thanks guys. Very interesting comments about insulation levels between the garments. Ben, when using my AltaII, I only usually wear a wicking baselayer, although I now have a torres gillet to "play with" to mix and match as conditions dictate. As others have said, it is not a case of consciously sweating - as the liner does its job, it's just a case of feeling very warm (too warm). I accept that perhaps there will not be a large noticeable difference if wearing either the VAL or the Quito instead.
However, there is a very noticeable weight and bulk difference. I guess it doesn't matter really whilst actually wearing the garment - but it would make a significant difference when removing the garment and carrying it in my backpack. Hence, part of the reason for trying to find a replacement for the heavier and bulkier Alta.
Incidentally, I have tried both jackets on today in Ambleside - the VAL is indeed slightly longer at the front and does seem to be a more substantial "all rounder" than the Quito.
"Incidentally, I have tried both jackets on today in Ambleside - the VAL is indeed slightly longer at the front and does seem to be a more substantial "all rounder" than the Quito."
Is this an either/or decision? You can stretch a Quito into more winter situations by adding other items, but a VAL is not as convenient in urban situations due really to the smock problem of over-head-removal. They are similar enough its not worth going for both VAL and Quito, pick one for your most common usage scenarios. There might be an argumen, say, for owning Quito and AltaII.
In my case with Quito, its better fitting my common needs, and I was just going to pack my Fuera smock to add over for the worst days at altitude, so at base I'd be vented-Quito, then zipped-Quito then layer with Fuera if it gets snarly. In snarly conditions last 2 weeks I've not found the Quito lacking, my concerns with the many zips hasn't manifested leaking.
I'd advise packing a windproof to anyone, because no jacket is perfect.
