 I did some maths. - Torres Gilet=370g , £75
- Torres sleeve=226g, £55
- (so sleeves+gilet = 596g)
- Torres smock = 775g (but has hood and has thicker insulation than a gilet+sleeves) , £100
- Torres trousers = 514g, £100
So that's between 1.11Kg and 1.289KG, and between £200-£230
A bothy for 2 people, a different type of usefulness, is between and 230g and 400g, and between £40 and £60. So assuming you'd want the gilet anyway, adding Torres option is adding 510g and £95. If you're spending all day in cold area where you need such overlayers then consider warmer baselayers and midlayers, or the warmer shell alternatives? If you're after insulation for when stationary then consider a bothy? Most folks pack to weight and would prefer items like spare food or spare dry baselayers (e.g. socks) and for the Torres level of weight it makes me think there are better alternatives.
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 Nigel. Looks like you are missing the point of belay jacket i.e. there are many occasions when one is stationary but doing something eg. belaying, cooking, pitching a tent. Difficult to compare the functionality of a 2 person bothy to a belay jacket, particularly for solo activities. In winter a belay jacket is standard kit in addition to those extra under layers.
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As for the cost, the closest garment (133g fill) with a hood and of equivalent warmth would be the Rab belay jacket which has an RRP of £165. In terms of the Paramo range the Torres Smock represents good value for money eg. it costs less than one of their fleeces. Agreed the Sleeves and Gillet combined don't represent good value for money especially considering you'd need to add a Paramo cap to have a versitile equivalent to the Smock. Perhaps that is one of the reasons they don't seem to be marketing the Sleeves with the Gillet, but more as a "revoloutionary" stand alone garment.
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What was the weight saving on that lighter gilet anyway Parky? Are we talking triple figures?
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 sorry dan. it didn't occur to me to ask. if i wanted a lightweight gilet i'd buy an even lighter pertex covered one. i don't see the point of the paramo one.
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Nigel. Looks like you are missing the point of belay jacket i.e. there are many occasions when one is stationary but doing something eg. belaying, cooking, pitching a tent. Difficult to compare the functionality of a 2 person bothy to a belay jacket, particularly for solo activities. In winter a belay jacket is standard kit in addition to those extra under layers. I said that I was sold on the gilet idea, I own a Torres gilet, and I admitted I can see some scenarios, not for many, for the sleeves and the trousers. To carry that weight for the trousers for example just for a rest stop. I mean.... if its cold don't stop for lunch til you're out of shelter, if its cold the whole time you can be lighter in other trousers.
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sorry dan. it didn't occur to me to ask. if i wanted a lightweight gilet i'd buy an even lighter pertex covered one. i don't see the point of the paramo one. I own the Torres Gilet 370g and a Patagonia Down Vest 193g, the Torres is warmer and better neck insulation has clearly more water-tolerance but the down is so much lighter. Out of curiosity Parky, if you wanted a lighter gilet which would you get?
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 The Rab Generator Vest weighs 290g so if the Paramo Torres Light Gilet weighs around that weight I will probably buy one in size large for a closer fit over a windproof.Until then I'm happy with my XL standard Torres Gilet over my Paramo jacket for rest stops.
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nigel, i wouldn't want a lighter one because i wear the gilet rather than have it as an insulation item. the very fact that the torres has a robust outer was its selling point for me. i do have a montane solo gilet which gets carried when it's cold, because it is light and scrunchable, but in those situations i would be wearing completely different layers anyway and unlikely to need something to throw on at a stop. it's something i prefer rather carry and not use rather than not having it if needed..
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 I met Skippy today. What a nice man. I read his (real) name badge and said - "You're Skippy!" He smiled in affirmation so I said, "I'm the Ninja Pussy Cat", to which his response was, "You're the lady who likes to wear black Paramo!". Well remembered, Skips. But then I WAS wearing my black VAL at the time... He told me about a special deal on the Torres Gilet (dragging this back on topic) and how the uniflip cut of it was good on women with shapely boobs and hips. He was right. What a cracking garment... ...that I now own 
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 I bet he was praying you wasn't going to mention the "Paramo too big for their boots" thread.
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I am in UK for a week, having travelled from California via Texas. I packed my Patagonia Down Sweater Vest rather than my Paramo Torres Gilet because the down stuffs smaller and is less weight, it matters when travelling with just a 20L bag hand-luggage. I know the down is not as good an idea for wet weather, but if I encounter cold+wet I just wear under a shell. I also didn't pack my Quito as even though it is the smallest+lightest Analogy jacket, it requires it to be cool enough and is less flexible than just packing a shell. However I did pack a Fuera as a hard-wearing windproof, otherwise it would have been a Paramo-free trip. Walked for 10 miles today over Yorkshire moores and in sunshine was t-shirt by dusk was gilet+windproof.
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 Hello Ninja Pussy Cat - I think it's pretty public my real name is Rob, although Skippy makes perfect sense if you've ever met me, which clearly you now have. I'm glad you liked the Torres Gilet, it was a really great show. Being a photographer I’m just a bit gutted that I didn’t get chance to take a proper look about. Total purchases – two cleaning cloths and another faster memory card for my G11 which I use as a digital note book. It was nice to meet up and have a natter and put faces to names. We are up at the Outdoor Show at the end of the month so please pop by if any of you want a chat or give us feedback on products etc– most of the team will be there at one point or another. Glyn,No we/ I/ Nick hadn't seen the thread mentioned above, we have all been away (or at least those of us who read OM when we get a spare 10 mins) at a number of consumer and trade shows for most of the last 20 or so days so conspiracy theory over I’m afraid. It's nearly 7pm on a Friday night, I've just got back from one consumer event and I'm at the next one at 7am tomorrow morning. It's a very small team here at Páramo at a very busy time of year. I've sent the link to Nick and if he gets a minute either he or I'll respond to it. As one of you have mentioned there is always two sides to all stories, we are as committed to our retailers as we ever have been with most of them going from strength to strength. Selling anything needs to work for all parties including our consumers. There have been some changes but these were very public and open and were actually put in place back in May last year so are hardly fresh news? When ever there is change someone won’t like it. The vast majority (and I mean the vast majority) of our retailers seem pretty happy and consumer feedback on the whole is really good. We talk to and visit our retailers a lot and I’m personally talking to lots every week. Just like the average Páramo consumer if our retail partners don’t like something they make it pretty clear very quickly. Most have just had a record xmas period and a great start to the year. That’s down to you guys buying stuff? That’s good alround isn’t it? We have some great new products coming out in the next few weeks including the Vista jacket, but perhaps more on that at some other point.
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The Torres Gilet light is now out, is only a little lighter as we guessed as the insulation wouldn't be lighter just the outer fabric. More info on page 20 on the latest catalogue where you see regular gilet is 370g, the newer lighter one is 40g lighter. Same
RRP £77although clearly you're more likely to get discounts on the older model for a while.
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eh? they're discontinuing the proper gilet? why?
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Nope they are both in the catalogue and website. Pricing I was referring to the newer gilet far more likely to be available in the the usual RRP -10% whilst the older gilet more likely to have stock in a sale. I don't think they're stopping the old one now but obviously if they have both out there fighting for a fixed customer demand they will almost certainly cancel one of the lines eventually. Not sure why they made the newer gilet longer, I thought it was long enough, and I am a little nervous about the photographs showing a slight narrowing in the shoulder area so slightly less warm there. I have that side vertical-side gilet in a down model and its not as warm.
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Pricing - the original is available for about 10ukp less than the newer one so finding the newer variety takes patience.
Ordered off Paramo 2nds on Ebay a Gilet Light medium. Item claims to have been worn for a magazine but no signs of wear. My original gilet is Large and I'm finding I'm wearing over base just for insulation, and its way tooo baggy a Large without something bulky under. Also once I shrunk my Analogy waterproof from a Velez Large to a Quito Medium, the Torres gilet Large was feeling somewhat bulky. I'll keep both gilets til I see if the original still has a role.
On the issue of long-term wear of the newer lighter outer fabrics, well I've now gone a full 12-months with my experience with Quito and I've seen no evidence of the outer suffering wear. I have seen signs of the inner bobbling, which is more related to my belt choice
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FYI the Torres Gilet Light Medium is 1 inch longer back than the original Torres Gilet size Large, 28" vs 27" as measured from collar to tail. The relative chest sizes what you'd expect for a 3" chest reduction, 24" reduced to 22.5" laid flat arm-pit.
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