Peter of course you're right about the Ultrafleece/Softshell thing although I wasn't being entirely serious

I've just recieved the Extreme brochure and I've seen one that looks like it's worthy of further investigation.

Martin, TTG, my mistake regarding the Jetstream, it is of course Quantum (the Litespeed is Microlight) I just got confused with all the different stuff that had been mentioned.

> Despite the U-fleece Mountain Jacket being a firm critical favourite I understand sales were falling, I think mainly with the increasing (and IMHO misguided!) popularity of (more expensive) membrane windrpoof fleeces.

There's quite a bit of that, I suspect.  I also suspect the 'new soft shell paradigm' of close-fitting, stretch fabrics had something to do with it; Karisma doesn't stretch, so has to be cut accordingly, which doesn't tally with the 'new paradigm'.  On the other hand, neither does Microtherm...

Oh for a stretch, hard-faced Karisma...

PowerShield, in my experience, doesn't qualify as a membraned fabric; it's far more breathable.  There's quite a bit of discussion of what it actually is; many people say the 'membrane' is merely a layer of glue, and the 'perforations' are merely the natural gaps formed as the layer of glue is spread over the fabric.  I know that, for cold weather skiing, I often carry a pertex windshirt to pop on over my Patagonia MixMaster, as that is sometimes too permeable, and lets me get too cold.

Another possible fabric is IBQ Thermaskin (if you can find anyone using it), which Montane used in the Dyno and Soft Tech jackets a few years ago.  A bit like PowerShield, but even more permeable.  Very like a stretch, hard-faced Karisma in function.  The Soft Tech jacket was cut almost as a clone of the Ultrafleece/Aquafleece jacket, which is why I bought one.  I even reviewed it...

I'm hoping to order the Extreme Alpine Lite jacket in K2 (Karisma/Ultrafleece). It looks exactly what I'm after, full zip, drawcords on hem and collar, rucksack compatible pockets with a mesh lining, wear patches on shoulders and elbows, velcro adjustable cuffs. Made to measure too so there should be no unpleasant surprises.

There are a few other interesting items that may go on the wants list depending on how things go with the Alpine Lite.

captain paranoia wrote (see)

Another possible fabric is IBQ Thermaskin (if you can find anyone using it), which Montane used in the Dyno and Soft Tech jackets a few years ago.  A bit like PowerShield, but even more permeable.  Very like a stretch, hard-faced Karisma in function.  The Soft Tech jacket was cut almost as a clone of the Ultrafleece/Aquafleece jacket, which is why I bought one.  I even reviewed it...

I've just gotten a Montane Dynamo? in IBQ Thermaskin from Parky but I don't see it as an alternative/substitute for Ultrafleece. As you say it's faced and stretchy but it's much thinner so less insulation although it may be more windproof although less windproof than a windshirt.

Do you remember what it's intended use was?

I don't know if they've already been mentioned but

Mardale is another company that also seems to do some stuff in Karisma (though they seem to be trying to compete with Paramo on the 'shite colour' front) 

The Dynamo is a cracker for fast-moving day trips for me.....I am too slow backpacking for it to keep me toasty warm in winter (MX Hoody the trick at the mo). But if you can skedaddle the Dynamo is great...

...just don't stop for lunch - then again who would

Mardale is an anagram of 'Real Mad'   

Not wanting to be pedantic Parky but Richard is still having a none too exciting consumer experience

I was out in the Mournes today and gave the Montane jacket a trial, I have to say I'm quite impressed. Worn over a Trekmates bamboo L/S top and North Cape Rovyl zip neck I didn't need any other layers apart from when we stopped and when it started to snow. I wasn't too warm and didn't feel any significant windchill in spite of a fairly stiff breeze on the tops and the temperature below freezing.

I'm surprised to be honest as it definitely insulates less than my Ultrafleece jacket, the extra wind resistance must help make up for the lack of insulation once on the move. I did pull on a Montane Flux but only when stopped for any length of time and after stopping for lunch I wore a Marmot Essence over the Montane softshell as it was pretty cold, snowing and there was a stiff breeze. Back at the car there was no condensation inside the Marmot Essence and my baselayer was dry so all in all a winner.

Thanks Again Parky

i'm pleased you found it useful richard. being a different fabric is does require a bit of a personal tweak to get it spot on.

mr sworld - it's a montane dynamo jacket of an earlier incarnation before they went all fabric mainstream. i think the fabric, ibq thermaskin, is better.

> It's a Montane Dynamo I think, it doesn't say on it but it's made from faric called IBQ Thermaskin.

Probably the Dyno.  Contemporary of the Soft tech jacket, but no hood.  Both in IBQ Thermaskin.

The Dynamo is a Pertex Equilibrium Stretch jacket.

Just to confuse things further, Montane have just launched a new Dyno...

Talking of such things, an early example of Haglof's Lizard top in the wild at the climbers shop - here. (also a preview on PTCs blog). They're running ahead of Haglof's website which would give precise details of the Flexable used in it.

No membrane of course so its spiritually quite like wind resistant fleeces. Its certainly trying quite hard to look like a fleece! See also (if sadly not in the UK!) Klattermusen's mithril pullover

The microtherm alpine is certainly nice but has a windproof outer which he's trying to avoid.

Paul Hike-Lite wrote (see)

Think the product for you is the recently introduced Mountain Equipment Microtherm Alpine Jacket. Very light windproof outer with a thin wicking liner that provides a bit of insulation.

Not quite, I'm after insulation in the form of a fleece that has a bit of wind resistance and good breathablity rather than a windshirt with some insulation added.

I think the product for me is the Extreme Alpine Lite but I'm still waiting on a refund from Mardale.

> Very light windproof outer with a thin wicking liner that provides a bit of insulation.

"Every so often a product comes along that is quite different and makes you wonder why didn't someone make this before?"

They did.  It's called Marmot DriClime.

Or various flavours of the shelled micropile that almost every other manufacturer has had a go at over the years, with shell fabrics varying in weight and waterproofing, and variation in micropile warmth...

Even ME had a go with the previous incarnations of the Microtherm, starting with the eponymous DuPont CoolMax Alta Microtherm lined versions, to the later, lighter version with the grid effect liner.  Which they seem to have resurrected...