Gear

Morning all, just after a little bit of advice re. sleeping bags.

 I'm looking to be out and about for the occasional overnight and weekend trip in the very near future, only as you have all probably noticed its still a tad on the chily side.

Anyway, i recently got an embarassingly good deal on a vango venom 200 (£7 in a tk maxx clearance ), i know this really is a summer only bag, but for the current temperature what sort of effect would it have doubling up with a 0'C ish rated bag? im curently eying up a rab quantum 200 for sale on the forums here.

 Or would i be better off just buying something spesifically designed for the current climate ?         

Hi Bill,

Years ago I used a down bag inside a cheepo synthetic bag and was never cold - even tho temperatures were well down below freezing. 

The only issue is one of fitting you inside one bag inside the other - 2x down, or, synthetic and down

My old combination worked as the synthetic bag was wider (and heavier) that usually available nowadays.

You could go the whole way and buy a purpose made Combi bag (from say PHD - but they are very expensive) , but for occasional trips - as long as all fit together - two bags should work.

BTW I found the rating of the combination far higher than the rating for each bag separately; eg minus 5c + 0c took me way down below minus 15c.

Nodrog. 

The comfort ratings for these two bags are +2c for the Rab Quantum 200and +11 for the Vango Venom.  I'm not sure what the theoretical combined 'rating' would be, but there are two factors to consider:  

- ability to handle cold increased by you wearing lots of warm clothing inside the bag.

- but decreased if the weight of the Vango reduces the Rab's loft.

I'd guess the combination would work, but you might be wise to make sure you have lots of warm clothing around when you first test it in cold weather.  And if it isn't warm enough, the Rab is still a first class bag for later in the year.

Edit: Forgot to say "welcome to OM Bill".

Some rough and ready sums which might provide a guide....

Based on the PHD Combi which is sized specifically to nest with their other lightweight bags to allow both to fully loft. The Combi is given a 'typical operating' temp. of -5C, and their Minimus bag of +5C. PHD say that together they should handle -15C.

Now a +2C bag is 7 degrees less than the Combi and a +11C bag is 6 less than the Minimus. So a total of 13 degrees less on the ratings brings us to a combined value of around -2C.

Ok, there's a lot of rough and readiness around that, but I wonder if the weight/bulk of the Venom (don't know what it is) is worth it for what it might add. I think the warm clothes advice is probably very wise.... *

* Frum, I seem to be implying wisdom on your part, not sure how that happened!

BTW, welcome Bill.

What Matt said.  It's all a balance; weight and bulk and loft of the bags/extra clothing.

BTW PHD did offer a synthetic Combi-bag in their last sale. Same weight as the down bag - but not as lowly temperature rated.

Nodrog.

Matt C wrote (see)

* Frum, I seem to be implying wisdom on your part, not sure how that happened!

Firstly thank you for the welcomes, ive been lurking for the last year but previously anything ive wanted to know has already been discussed a thousand times over.

 As for 2 bags il try and summarise how im interpreting your responses.

2 bags are indeed warmer than 1, potentially significantly warmer.

Shape and size may be an issue, although the vango is the 200 sqare so it is fairly roomy throughout, so getting another bag inside shouldnt be too much of an issue, however at 880g for something only really good to 7'C it is infact pretty useless.

But to truly figure out if it would work for me, i need to get another bag and actually try it out.

 The PHD stuff does look wonderfull but for the immediate future well beyond my fiscal limits, but just out of curiosity how expensive are we talking come sale time?

 Anyway thank you everyone for your input     

Java junkie wrote (see)

Little used montbell down inner jacket (L) in grey ballistic nylon,very warm for the weight,bought from Hikelite a couple of years ago,fantastic condition,£45.

Rab Quantum 200 down bag,regular size in red quantum,used on the WHW for a week in 2008,not used since,as new condition,£60

£100 for both +p&p

Looks good to me, I'd get in quick if I were you.

   There won't be a problem with the Vango size, or if there is just undo the zip and use it as a quilt.  Then your only problem might be how many extra warm clothes you need till the weather gets warm enough for the Rab alone.  If you do get a chance to test things safely - i.e. in your garden or next to a car full of extra clothes and a thick domestic quilt - try out Matt's suggestion that the Rab + clothes might be enough without the Vango.

Thanks Frum, I guess i have to get it now as ive run out of possible arguements against trying 2 bags  

As for those sea to summit liners padstowe, i was looking at them, and the reviews online seem to be incredibly mixed with a huge range of feed back relating to there thermal benifits, so like most things im finding recently, the only way to get a true feel for somethings effectiveness is to try it yourself. I am certain the +15'C is a blatant lie in any situation.      

The PHD synthetic Combi Bag was £124 ish. This was a long, drishell, so cost more than the basic; I think the basic was £107.

Well worth looking out for to put with a lightweight bag to cope with freezing temps.

IMHO liners are excellent if you get in and do not move all night. If you do move around they are not such a good idea.  Think straightjacket!    Best stick with extra clothes.

Nodrog.

Rab Quantum 200 purchaced this afternoon from forum member Java Junkie, so when it arrives i will get out in the garden for, the trial of the 2 bags (how masonic does that sound ) and let you know how i fare.

 Again thank you to every one for the warm welcom and the sound advice. Bill   

Rab arrived at work this morning, Thank you very much JavaJunkie. I now see what a down bag is supposed to be like, its so unbelievably lofty, also confiming my earlier suspicions that the vango venom is infact utterly useless.

And i now see what you mean Frum, about the posibilities of the vango restricting the loft of the RAB,

I used to use a Karrimor 'spirit 20 coolmesh' pack for summer walking. The shoulder straps were bent to an angle in such a way so that (presumebly) they tucked in better under the armpits. Problem is i like tightish shoulder straps to sit the pack higher on my back and this design not only meant that the mesh backing to the straps would wear away at anything you had on but would also produce sore chaffing rashes under my arms.

avoid if poss....

wrong thread beatmesiter?

...I know, just realised, it should be on Parky's new gear wrecking thread. If a moderator could please move it i'd be much obliged....

Soz Bill