I am looking into the options for a new stove. Main use is to be cycle touring in the UK and hopefully Europe. My only experience of stoves so far has been trangias but for various reasons I am looking at either a remote gas stove or liquid/multi fuel. The main use is a cycle tour in Europe that would be 2+ months. Hence I will probably want to do more than simply heat water.
Gas: Advantages are the stove is cheap to buy and ease of use. The disadvantage seems to be expense and availability of fuel.
Liquid fuel: Adavantages seem to be cheap fuel if using unleaded and available anywhere. The high energy value of the fuel means that one fill will last a long time. Hence cookiing for longer to do 'better' meals is not a problem. Disadvantages seem to be expense of stove, complexity of bits (pumps etc) mean more to go wrong. Use of unleaded may lead to blockages. Less convenient to use, priming, flaring etc. More difficult to simmer.
Any general comments on the above points appreciated. Also some specific questions;
How much do petrol stoves flare? Is it safe to use them in a tent?
What is the situation with filling a small fuel bottle at a garage pump? I seem to remember hearing that this was now not allowed in the Uk and you could only use a large, approved vehicle style fuel can. If done do you carry a small funnel?
I know it is difficult to answer but how long would you expect to get out of a 250 canister? (Normal use inc cooking say pasta based meals from scratch or similar in the evening)
I have heard of the problem with gas stoves losing power as the fuel is used up and that turning the cylinder upside down can solve this if the stove has a preheat tube. Is it recommended to do this from the start? I understand it is due to one of the gases that provides the pressure burning off. Does running like this cause flare? Again would it be safe to do in a tent?
Anybody got experience of buying gas cylinders in Europe? How available are they likely to be outside the outdoor tourist areas?
For both stoves what is the current situation with taking stoves on aircraft. I would probably be flying back and wouldn't want to have an expensive stove confiscated because it is not allowed.
I take liquid/multi fuel when I'm going to be away from reliable supply of gas (so a long sea-kayaking trip around Shetland cooking for 4 I took LF), and whether that will be an issue in Europe depends what values of "Europe". A "400" can of gas will last a good amount of cooking, cooking for two and not scrimping we've not finished one yet on a week's tour, so as long as you plan your refueling a little it shouldn't be the biggest problem in a lot of places.
How much do petrol stoves flare? Is it safe to use them in a tent?
Flaring is really limited to the priming process. With someone that knows what they're at and has plenty of practce they can be used very reliably priming with their own main fuel, but there's always some risk and you do need the practice. You can reduce the danger using meths or priming paste as a primer rather than petrol, but that's more faff as you need another bottle of noxious stuff. The degree of how safe in a tent depends on the practice, priming fuel and also the tent. A spacious tent with the inner down it's much less of a problem than trying to do it in a rather small porch that's being blown in and out by a gale.
Ultimately, how happy you are with it is down to you based on how reliably you know you can avoid priming flares.
I have heard of the problem with gas stoves losing power as the fuel is used up and that turning the cylinder upside down can solve this if the stove has a preheat tube. Is it recommended to do this from the start? I understand it is due to one of the gases that provides the pressure burning off. Does running like this cause flare? Again would it be safe to do in a tent?
Nothing to gain by doing it to start with, excpet a loss of control over the stove. It can cause flaring with a fresh bottle, at the end there's little enough coming out that flaring's a non-issue. Safe in a tent is again a lot down to your tent and your own benchmark of "safe". I do it, but I have tents with big porches.
I can't tell you how easy it is to get gas where you'll be going, but if research suggests it's okay then I'd personally go for the gas option. It's the one I use (and I have the choice in the cupboard) by preference.
For lightweight short duration stuff I use a gas stove with preheat tube or a whitebox meths stove. For cycle touring and kayaking where I tend to cook food from raw I use a primus omnifuel along with Terra pans. The stove will burn all kinds of liquid fuel (and I do mean all kinds) and also takes a gas canister.
A good source of fuel is the type of petrol used in chain saws and leaf blowers as they run at lower temps than cars. My fuel of choice is Aspen T4 about £12 for 5 litres at my local lawnmower shop. On the omnifuel I take a flame dissipator to help control when simmering a casserole, I made it by cutting the bottom off an old stainless pan and sits under my terra pan, it adds a few grammes but that doesn't matter on the bike.
I cook in my tent porch with the door open and always have. Keep the stove in the opening so that any flare goes outside and if all else fails you can chuck the lot out the door. Practice a lot with the stove and don't get too enthusiastic turning the wick up too soon after pre-heat allow it to get really hot first (30-60 secs is enough and you can have the pan on during that time). Meths will give a more controlled pre-heat than petrol but I dont bother taking 2 fuel, but if you are of a nervous disposition it is an option, you will need it if you are using Parafin.
I do not cook with petrol in the tent because of noxious fumes, and the possibility of flare up. Petrol is the best liquid fuel that is widely available. In Africa you can pretty much not get gas canisters. In Europe I have always been able to get one somewhere.
The trouble is there are 3 non interchangeable types. British/American screw on, French non valved pieceable, French click on valved. I would take my standard screw on remote stove and a back up adaptor to the pierceable type that I bought from Needlesports in Keswick.
We use about 30 gram of gas per camp for 2 people heating water maybe 3 litres per camp but ours is a heat exchanger system not an ordinary pot. Our remote stove does not flare when we invert the canister but it does burn faster. We are doing this in a small porch, but there is a protective windshield. It is only important to invert the stove when it is cold. If however it turned very very cold when you had got down to Propane free dregs by non inverted burning, you might theoretically not be above atmospheric pressure to push liquid out to the preheat tube. Heating the canister with your hands would solve even this problem. Inverted burning is still the way when it is cold.
+1 for the Primus Omnifuel. The main point being it's a gas cartridge and liquid fuel stove - best of both worlds if you can get screw on cas cartridges where you are going. I bought one in a moment of weakness and haven't used it due to my other options. It's available BNIB for a very reasonable sum if you are interested. PM me if you wish.
My usual weapon of choice is an MSR Whisperlite International which burns White Gas, Petrol and Paraffin (and its variants e.g. Kerosene). I wouldn't light up a liquid fuelled stove in a fully closed tent when there is a good chance of a flare up, I would use it in a closed environment once primed and running.
I also use a Pocket Rocket for UK backpacking and estimate ~30g per day gas consumption when solo. These days, with the additona of Propane to the gas, poor winter performance is reduced. How we used to laugh tring to coax a butane cartridge into life at minus 5c
As it's filthy stuff, I tend to only use petrol when I can't get Essence C (Naptha) which is the cleanest and cheapest fuel I've found. It's the same stuff as Coleman White Gas but was/is available from French Briocolages for a fraction of the cost. I'd also use the aspen fuel if there was a stockist near me. When neccesary, I've been able to fill the MSR bottle at garages, the unleaded pump nozzle fits into the spout so no need for funnels etc.
As for flying, I've flown my MSR and its fuel bottle all over the world but have always ensured there is no fuel and no smell of fuel in/on either and carry the fuel bottle unstoppered to be certain.
I have the older Primus Himalaya Multifuel, the predecessor of the Omnifuel (the main difference is it won't do diesel).
And one of the nice things about it is it does do gas, but it does gas with less control, quietness and efficiency than our dedicated Primus gas stoves. But I'd sooner use it with gas than liquid fuel if there wasn't a particular reason to use liquid fuel.
The adapters which let you use pierceable cartridges with gas stoves made for use with threaded cartridges are very useful. I think the pierceable cartridges are quite widely used in some countries, so you should be able to get them if the threaded type aren't available. Wish I'd had an adapter on a trip to Portugal I made a few years ago during which I'd planned to use an MSR gas stove. MSR had assured me the appropriate cartridges would be available — turned out they were wrong.
Also consider using a pot cosy, My Terra pans have a neoprene one which is effective. Rice, Pasta or spuds cook just fine using it, maybe with the occasional blast to bring the temp back up in really cold conditions. That leaves your other pan free for cooking up a sauce or casserole.
I have rarely cooked in a sealed tent, my tents have enough options to allow the door to be opened on the leaward side for ventilation, even in the worst conditions.
> Nothing to gain by doing it to start with, excpet a loss of control over the stove.
Well, I'd imagine that one benefit of using a liquid feed at all times with a gas stove is that the remainder of the cylinder remains at pretty much its original mixture, rather than having the more volatile gas come off preferentially.
Flaring with liquid feed stoves can certainly be a problem; there's no way I'd use my Fire Jet inside a tent, because I've seen the thing flare during operation (after priming), as the carburation failed. Then again, I wouldn't recommend a Fire Jet to anyone; one of my poorest purchases...
As others have said, why not go for the Omnifuel, and have the gas and liquid fuel options.
> heavier, more expensive, not as good a gas stove as the Gravity EF.
True, but all things are compromises. If the OP is concerned about fuel types and availability, then a stove that can take a wide range of fuels, but weighs a little more seems a reasonable compromise.
I mean, if weight and cost are at a premium, buy an 88g Gelert Blaze for £13.
It is all compromise but I have cycled extensively in East and West Europe and I have always found a gas canister somewhere. I feel that by carrying a spare you could pretty much guarantee never having to use dirty smelly dangerous liquid fuels, cyclists pass lots of shops compared to walkers, so why carry a multifuel. I never found a screw canister in Italy and had to buy a cheap pierceable stove to cook. That was before the adaptor. I still preferred that solution to cooking with petrol, which I had to do in Morocco. There My whisperlight pump broke, but I pressurized with my bicycle pump the rest of the trip, problem solved but burning unleaded still smells. The pierceable adaptor was quite heavy so mine now has the light chassis of the cheap stove bought in Italy.
For a bike tour the best choice is something like a MSR Pocket Rocket or Optimus Crux stove that uses Lindal valve screw-on canisters of iso-butane gas.
1. > Be SURE to get a folding plastic tripod to set the canister on for stability.
2. > Also get a heavy foil windscreen like the MSR version. No windscreen means longer cooking times and wasted fuel. Never surround the canister entirely with the windscreen to prevent overheating (and exploding) the canister.
This is not to say an unleaded petrol stove like the MSR Simmerlite would not work well. It's just heavier and bulkier as a stove. For 3 season temperatures a canister stove is fine. For cold weather a liquid fuel stove is much better and will always work regardless of temperature.
The piercable type gas canisters are far more widely available than any other type over the whole of continental western Europe. Most camping site shops sell them, so do (at least in the summer) many grocers, supermarkets and hardware shops, particularly in what might loosely be defined as 'holiday' areas. You should have no difficulty buying them on a cycling holiday. In contrast, the Lindal type screw fitting canisters are sold in far fewer places - basically the same sorts of shops as you will find them in here in the UK.
Either buy the type of adapter described above or a cheap Camping Gas stove.
Thanks for the replies. I knew that France was difficult to get iso canisters but I am surprised at Italy. I suppose it may seem worse in France and similar countries if the camping gas ones are so available. Outside outdoor tourist areas here it would be difficult to find a shop selling gas canisters of any sort in most UK small towns or villages. I don't know where would sell them apart from outdoor shops and maybe campsites and general shops in areas like the lakes etc.
I assume the Needlesports adapter is the karrimor one on this page
http://www.needlesports.com/acatalog/Hi_Gear.html
It is very bulky and heavy. I did look at the stoves on the camping gas page and they only make one now that uses the pierceable cartridges. All their other stoves use their push on canisters. Those canisters seem to be available here wherever the screw top ones are and I assume they would be available in places like France.
I have found two other adapters from Markill. One uses the pierceable canisters but folds up and one for the push on ones.
The Markill push on adapter says that it isn't suitable for coleman stoves??? I thought that the screw fitting was an ISO standard and all screw stoves cartridges would be the same. Does this mean that coleman stoves will only workk with coleman cartridges?
There is also a very cheap adapter for the push on ones from here
My budget is limited so the top price multi fuel stoves from Primus etc are too expensive. I was thinking of getting one of the cheap ebay ones, either gas or multifuel.
