Oh, nice article on Berghaus' new kit: it's about time they brought out a rucsac liner, just a shame we have to pay for their inability to seam-seal their rucsacs. It's also a pitiful reflection on the company when this website endeavours to bring attention to their products, but Berghaus can't even put them on their own website. It's pathetic. Another example of Berghaus'lacklustre distribution network (apart from that supplying chavs and townies, who appear to be their main clothing consumers): I'd like to see a pair of Yetis in any of Brum's outdoor shops. Not happened in living memory. Sort it out Berghaus, you're losing business!
Dam if chavs and townies are wearing the same as me I'n going to have to change my brand before my dogs attack me for being one. Can't have the wolfpack turning on me!
hardly any rucksac maufacturers seam seal their rucksacs. consider the amount of seams in a sac, and then the bulk and weight of the sealant that would be required to proof the sac.
unless a sac is marked as waterproof (of which i can't think of many, most notably some of the craghoppers gear), it won't have taped seams.
i think its a much more versatile solution to use a waterproof liner, as you can remove all of your gear from the pack (and keep it dry) while your bag dries out.
The Craghopper Dri-sacks are only waterproof because they come with a liner similar to a dry bag. A seam-sealed pack would be very expensive due to the time/effort needed to seal the insides properly.
Whilst I agree that launching a product range without at the same time adding it to the website is pretty poor marketing, I don't think that Berghaus are alone in being useless in that respect. They should, of course, sort it out pronto, though.
However, very few rucksacks have sealed seams, or claim to be waterproof. Likewise, tents that aren't heat-taped are also often unsealed. My Macpac tent came with a little bottle of seam seal for me to do it, and I'd much rather spend a few minutes doing it myself, than have to pay extra to have it done for me.
Seems Berghaus can't win here - if they get the new stuff into the shops before advertising them they are critisised - if they advertise them on the website before getting them in the shops people complain when they see them online but can't find them in the shops. Having said which these new ranges have been mentioned on their website for a few weeks now.
Cotswold in Hedge End have these new gizmo's, but they are not on the website yet. I know some companies only update their sites on a fixed schedule as they are hosted elsewhere and need to tie up with other planned work.
Well, they have the wrong idea of what their website is for, then. It's part of their marketing arm. As such, the website development should take place in parallel with the product development, so that the two are launched together, website possibly slightly in advance, to give a 'taster' of new ranges. Basic marketing, I think.
'The Cluetrain Manifesto' should be read by anybody seriously using a corporate website. And any serious corporation _should_, by now, be using their website seriously.
I think I saw the gizmos at the Outdoors Adventure Show, and thought they were rather too 'accessory' for me...
A nice little range, you can see the demand for these bits - keep your kit where you can get to it! Shame the belt clips only fit 25mm or less webbing, my belt is just under 32mm (I think its a standard sorta size leather belt) and my combat belt (dont know the technical name is, its green with rows of 3 holes all the way down it) is just under 54mm wide. So these 'super' little packs wont fit on them which is a shame.
How do I know this? Blacks (yes thats what I said) started stocking them at least 4 weeks ago.
You can get pouches for combat belts from Army/Navy stores. One of the amunition ones with the center devide taken out is just the right size to hold plastic waterbottels.
Berghaus lost my custom in a big way with their approach to customer care some years ago. I had brought a Trango Extrem and after 3 wks continuous use on a trip the gore seam tape started to come away from around the neck and shoulder area. Returned it to F&T for onward transmission to Berghaus who said that the jkt wasn't at fault and suggested that it had been contaminated with 'oil'. They grudgingly repaired the taped seams and that was that. By comparison the best gear manufacturer for customer service has to be Mountain Equipment. I recently had cause to use their 30 day sleeping bag exchange service and it was first rate.
Mornin' all. First up - I'm from Berghaus and my role includes looking after the website. So, onto a response to a few of the comments.
Paddy: 1. I think Anthony's answer on the seam sealing of rucsacs reflects my thoughts, other than to add that we have actually developed some sacs that are as good as waterproof (we won't claim they are 100% waterproof because for example a bladder outlet belies that) and will be available later this year.
2. We have plenty of customers in Brum. If they had placed forward orders for Yetis they would have them. It sounds like they don't list that particular product, but they may be prepared to order a pair in for you (depending on waht we have in stock ourselves!). Drop me a line (clines@pentland.com) and we'll see if we can find any in your vicinity.
3. We supply specialist outdoor retailers. What they sell on to whom is their business.
4. Accessables on the website. These products are only just going in store now. We're in a slightly tricky situation whereby we'd like to have every spring/summer product up online now, but as many of them still haven't appeared in store that (when we've done it before) has historically caused us numerous problems. There are a couple of articles on the site referring to the new range and mentioning the Accessables, but fair comment we'll endeavour to do more earlier in the future.
Captain Paranoia: 1. Our online activity fundamentally is part of our marketing work and our marketing and product teams work very much hand in hand. It's fair to say that the the website was undervalued as a marketing tool for some time, but we have invested a lot of time and money over the last 18 months to redress that.
The results of that work and money are only really starting to appear now. We now have an online Club, which people can join free of charge and which will deliver various benefits, including previews of new ranges before they appear in store (or even elsewhere on the site). This should overcome the issue highlighted in point 4 of my response to Paddy.
2. I have read (if not all, then big chunks of) The Cluetrain Manifesto and I (Berghaus in general in fact) do take our website very seriously. We've got plenty to roll out this year, but in the very short term, we'll definitely get something more about the Accessables up on line this morning!
Apologies to everyone for such a long winded response.
Thanks Chris. Also, to be fair to Berghaus, their web site is, in my experience, one of the best of the manufacturers' sites and is regularly updated with stories and, generally, product information. I can think of plenty that aren't and one or two that float around cyberspace like the Marie Celeste.
I had two Trango Extrems in the 90s, the first one delaminated and was replaced under warranty without any quibbles. The tape seams coming away was a 90s Gore-Tex trait and not confined to Berghaus by any means, and I've never had that happen with a more recent Goer-Tex jacket from any manufacturer.
Very few waterproof rucksacs around anywhere. If Berghaus is guilty in this respect, then so is everyone else....
I have to say I love my Airflow II 25litre since I got it last year. Will be looking at the same range again when I need to get a larger capacity. My friend bought the 35 litre model and is more than happy with that, and I got the 20 litre for the wife. I think it will take a lot to move me away from Berghaus ruck sacks, and being waterproof is not an issue when the covers come with them so I look like a spaceman walking!
I have quite a few bits of Berghaus including 3 freeflow packs, a Hobart fleece and one of the new camera cases and have to say I've never had any problems with them. They are well designed and the packs are heaven in the summer.
Grumpy Paddy here again...! I had to order my Cyclops III Quartz, so had no opportunity to examine it properly. Now I could be accused of buying in ignorance, but this rucsac appeared to have everything I needed, but when I finally got it, it really was a gizmo-bedecked mess. It never looked or felt right (yes, it was the right size) no matter how much was in it. I was also incredibly frustrated at the woolly thinking that had produced that paragon of dumb ideas, the side zip. Then there was the little pocket on the hip belt. Oh dear...So I flogged the rucsac and bought a Cyclops Atlas: reliably gizmo-free- not faultless, but close. I'm a Berghaus-rucsacs-fella every time, don't get me wrong, but that Quartz was an abject failure. I know rucsacs aren't waterproof, but it is only relatively recently that any manufacturer has shown signs of admitting this is a problem. Fertilizer sacks are still one of my more reliable bits of kit. It also annoyed me that I had to order in such a major item (the rucsac, not the fert bag...). The Outdoors shop in Brum has an entire lower floor devoted to Berghaus, but they would only order in something over £200. I suspect there aren't many items produced by Berghaus which cost over £200. The majority of this floor is clothes. So I ordered it somewhere else. I only use yetis as an example of a Berghaus staple really only rarely seen in the shops. Why? Dunno...they take up little shelf space, only come in limited sizes, and everybody who walks wants some (except me, at the moment at any rate). Nobody else produces anything comparable and obtainable, so why not try to sell a few pairs?
In a nutshell, why can't we just see and feel Berghaus stuff? That is how you sell it. I know from experience that if you put a Berghaus rucsac next to a Karrimor one, the Berghaus one is the one going home with the customer. It really isn't rocket science. Example: Why do you need to have a members club on your website? Is it to create another layer of accessibility so the members feel special? It's free. How do you really rate the intelligence of the website user? Just put the stuff on the website and stop messing about. If you want to improve the site, have a revolving picture of the rucsac or whatever, be able to zoom in on the back system or 'feature xyz.' I don't want to be a member, I want to have a gander at your stuff. If it isn't in the shops, you MUST have another way of showing the merchandise to the customer, in as much detail as you can. But I'm ranting now.
I hate to sound so negative and miserable about this, because I like Berghaus' stuff. My Atlas is excellent, and will do it's job for years. I've only just binned my original ACL top because copper sulphate isn't my favourite colour any more: the top still worked. I am enormously pleased with the fact that Chris has responded, it does restore my faith a little. Thanks for taking the time Chris. I do wonder whether Birmingham is just not well served as far as Berghaus stockists...
Fair enough on the Quartz. In truth it's not really my cup of tea either (I'd rather go for a sac like the Cyclops Light - simple, clean features and very lightweight), but the Quartz has sold well and seems to suit quite a few people admirably.
It sounds like you've had some really frustrating experiences in getting to see a good range of Berghaus in Birmingham. Though I can't comment on individual retailers and their buying policies, it sort of goes without saying that we'd love to see a deeper range of our gear (from standard to more technical products) in more stores. We'll keep striving to deliver that, but I can't guarantee that it will happen everywhere. However, in the future, I am hopeful that we'll be able to direct the public to stores in key geographical locations that stock a really representative selection of our full range.
As for the website, I hope I can reassure you a bit. Not being a member of the Club will not stop you seeing the product. As soon as the full range goes online (hopefully tomorrow for spring/summer 2004) it can be viewed by anyone on the site. The Club allows us to contact members proactively about news, competitions, promotions and a few other bits and bobs. Not being a member of the Club means that you won't get sent such e-mails. We don't want to pester people, but if they want to opt in and be sent news about Berghaus, then the Club exists for that reason. But we won't neglet everyone else, because "everyone else" is in the vast majority!
We did used to have revolving pictures on the site, but people struggled to download them. This was a few years ago and technology and PC power has moved on massively so thanks for the prompt - we'll have a look at that again soon.
Anyway, I'm in danger of reaching posting overload again and I really should be getting on with some other work. In conclusion, thanks for the 'rant'. I think I agree with most of what you said, and as for how well Birmingham is supplied with Berghaus, I'll let the sales team know!
Chris, thanks for the response. I think the last time our paths crossed was on mtn.co.uk, some time ago... I'm glad to hear that your website has been improved. I haven't looked at it for some time, but the last time I did, there was no email contact address (an _absolute_ must), and the 'forum' didn't seem to have a 'reply' button. I had to email one guy directly to reply to his question.
I shall have a look in the near future, to see what improvements you've made.
Unlike some members of this forum, I don't have any bad experiences with Berghaus kit (although the DWR treatments could do with being a bit more D and WR), hence my supportive comments on other recent threads. My 25-yr old Red Blaze daysack is still functioning, even if the back fabric has worn through.
For me, the most revealing story in the 'Cluetrain Manifesto' is that of United Airlines. They were regularly getting slated on a popular traveller's forum, and a UA employee started addressing some of the issues, off his own bat. This was very popular with the forum users, who found his responses very helpful. Then the Corporates found out what he was doing, and reprimanded him, on the basis that he was acting as a UA mouthpiece without 'press office' sanction. Reluctantly, he explained the situation on the forum, and that he could no longer offer help. Result: forum users launched a flaming assault on UA of air-wing napalm strike proportions. To their credit, UA saw the error of their ways, apologised, and created a department purely to handle such enquiries, with the resulting leap in customer satisfaction.
Is Berghaus that bad or don't 'We' like it anymore cos it's become Ned Fashion - and the stockists therefore stock the fashionable bits of the range and can't / won't get the sexy bits? I've a Berghaus windstopper fleece jacket which has had some hard use and has stood up well, and there are a couple of their rucksacs in our family, one of them with 20-years on the clock, still doing the biz.
FWIW and following on from Paddy's last thread I got Karrimor's version of the freeflow daysack so as not to get mixed up with my Dad's similarly coloured freeflow 35litre. And I wish I'd got the Berghaus too.
