How about providing an alternative? Almost all sites will not let on groups of youths, particularly same sex. How about encouraging/ forcing camp sites to permit young people might mean that this irritating and damaging event is not having to be resorted to? I for one have been regulary turned away at campsites just for being young. I find it offensive that my friends and I have encountered so much prejudice.
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 "Worryingly, the backs of walls and bushes are being used as toilets"
That's terrible. I hope no responsible hillwalker (or sheep) would ever pee against a wall or behind a bush.
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 Perhaps we need to change or description camping from "wild camping" to "no trace camping"
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 You'd have thought that a National Park Authority would have been keeping an eye on what's been going on in other National Park areas! As many on OM know, they've had the same problem on Loch Lomond and brought in legislation to ban trashy camping on the shores of the Loch. But at least the authorities up there talked to lots of people and seem to have understood the difference between trashy camping and wildcamping.
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Turner Hall farm will let groups of young adults camp there. If they ask in advance a whole field can be set asside, away from the family areas.
With showers and full facilities you would think groups would rather go there than 'wild camp'.
LDNP should encourage farms to have areas for camping, even a field corner tucked out of the way.
Ulpha Bridge is a beauty spot used by local families it is a shame to see it 'spoiled' by this wreckless type of camping.
Consideration to the area, enviroment and others wouldn't go amiss at times. It give's the rest of us true Outdoor Enthusiasts a bad name. I was told once if you Abuse it you’ll loose it
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 There are multiple issues here really. One is the abuse of the term 'wild camping' by an organisation that ought to know better.
Another is the irresponsible behaviour that's drawn attention to the issue in the first place. And then there's the question of alternative sites for groups of youngsters.
Fwiw, Turner Hall Farm is one of my favourite Lakes camp sites, it's fairly basic, but in a beautiful place and very relaxed and friendly. I've stayed there on numerous occasions, frequently as part of a largeish group, I don't think there's any good reason not to use it if you're camping in the valley bar the cost.
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 I used to like turner hall farm til that bloody 'cool camping' book came out. its now packed with people 'looking cool and camping' , no doubt wondering why they are there as they cant get a signal or wifi. stupid book.
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I'm waiting for Wild Glamping to come into being - I can't wait to load my trusty yurt, carpets, shower, butler and so on onto my trusty yak and get out onto the fells for some wilderness luxury. And yes, I know what you mean about Cool Camping... Just wait till they discover bothies :-/
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The problem today is that many 'young people' are irresponsible, they simply do not know how to behave, particularly in the countryside. I have been camping since I was 19 years of age so I know what I am talking about. Many, not all for sure, but many young people think that camping is an opportunity to get away from home, get drunk, and make a lot of noise (having a laugh they would probably call it). Whereas camping should be an opportunity to live closer to nature, appreciate the beauty of the countryside, and be more self-sufficient than living in our comfortable cocoons at home. Our activities on site should make no more noise than Nature does. We should leave no trace either of our being there except of course a bit of pale grass, which will soon green up!
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 ..... and increasing volumes of litter are not only an eyesore but a threat to grazing sheep too.....
This is exactly why I try to be responsible whenever possible and stash my litter and empties out of sight under a rock.
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| Edited: 31/07/10 17:36 |
This was already a problem 15 years ago when a group of us used to go for a week mountain biking. If we said that we were a group of 4-5 lads under 20 we could never get booked. On one occasion the site owner came over to us the second morning and told us she was going to ask us to move on, but she'd be so impressed by our behaviour (Including helping a family pitch their tent in challenging conditions) that she said she'd be re-considering her policy and asking all lad groups what they were planning and then decide whether to let them book.
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 "The problem today is that many 'young people' are irresponsible, they simply do not know how to behave, particularly in the countryside." Erm, not just 'young people', and 'twas ever so.... ".... many young people think that camping is an opportunity to get away from home, get drunk, and make a lot of noise (having a laugh they would probably call it)." That's true... 
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| Edited: 31/07/10 20:32 |
 There were probably more young people camping when I was a teenager, most of it illegal and none too responsible either. I and most lads I knew had tents and hatchets, ex US army pup tents were cheap, and a campfire was a normal part of the experience. There was no issue with it being cool or uncool, it was just camping. It was freedom from adults and their rules and having a lark, nothing to do with communing with nature or appreciating the beauty of the countryside, at least, not consciously. There were far fewer issues to do with upsetting tourists (in fact, except on one occasion, me and my friends encountered none) because today's home camping/tourist industry was in its infancy, though we did tend to get as far away from regular human habitation as possible. We even camped one night unmolested by authority on Friar's point on Barry Island but we were made to strike camp the following morning.
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 This is groups coming up from places like Millom and Barrow - it's in their genes, passed down through generations that have piled up to the Duddon Valley when the weather's good. They used to do it on pushbikes, now they do it in chavmobiles. Twas ever thus, but now there are more middle class tourists to get annoyed by it.
I remember as a kid, when dossing in a car wih my dad, getting moved on from a layby in the area. Dad, who came from there himself, used to regale me with stories of how his 'gang' would build dams across ghylls upstream of a footpath crossing, complete with critical chockstone attached to a cord - wait for tourists, pull chockstone away, watch as ensuing flood nearly washed away said tourists. And this was in the 50s....
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Seems to me that they have it spot on. What is happening is no different from what the author of the article sees as "wild camping" . They are both camping off an established site. The problem is that some fool(s) want to stick a label on everything and call something wild camping. Why FFS?
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 Many young people irresponsible ? No ,that is wrong .They are approachable ,and given the opportunity can show that they can keep everything sweet . Kate points out that by Lomond the authority has it rght ,that's because most of the groups of young people are exactly as i said .They don't need to be moved . And before anyone thinks i've gone liberal ,i think law breakers should be punished ,but please don't give youngsters a bad name . Hiking Holty ,you're spot on .I'm sure kids would like a "stealth" camp .
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Camping needs to be reasonably priced it order to encourage the less well off to use them. The National trust campsites are just cashing in on the cool for camping and not getting back to basics. Who needs showers, shops expensive car park. If areas were provided with limited water and toilet facilities this may solve the problem.
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Sam you need to realise that the cause of the 'prejudice' (as you call it) is the behaviour of other young people who have caused a lot of problems and upset.
You and your friends may not 'fit the bill' in that respect, but unfortunately it doesn't take too many unthinking, ignorant people to give a soured perspective and ruin things for all the well behaved young people.
It would not take too many drunken and/or rowdy groups of 'youngsters' spoiling the peace and enjoyment of the other campers to make the site owner leary of risking upsetting the majority and possibly losing custom.
Instead of getting 'offended', maybe your time would be better spent trying to find a way round the problem.
You could try writing in advance to camp sites you plan to use and establish in advance whether your age would be a problem and if so why and try and find a solution (in the process demonstrating an attitude of maturity)
Remember, try and see things from the perspective of the site owners.
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