Starting out?

Simon Hackett (minimalgear.blogspot.com) wrote (see)

Without wishing to be pedantic, you had to strap a drybag on the top to hold your insulating layers- you also said that your 5kg baseweight overloaded the pack. That would suggest that a larger more supportive pack would have been better. I think that for a really small pack, a load of around 3kg is a maximum size, which also gives an idea of volume. I don't want to criticise, because it's still a great achiement but it doesn't really answer the original question.

True, and I don't recommend it with the pack I used. But the OP talks of an overnight load - not 3 nights - so 1.5kg less food. And a 25l OMM sack, which is considerably higher spec that the 20l pack Iused. And asks whether he can get his gear inside OR outside it.  So I guess what I'm saying is that if I managed it with a 20l 210g pack for 3 nights then yes he should be able to manage 1 night with a 25l 600-700g pack. And I provide a full kit list to show one way it could be done.

But what ed h says is v.true. Complete pain in the arse having a rammed full pack.

ed h wrote (see)

I can get overnight kit into my 20l Alpkit bag in the summer if I really try; but I cannot see the point as it is a royal pain in the butt to move stuff in and out of the sack.

Time to go wrote (see)

So Sean, just to be clear. Are you against a small pack?

Good grief, no!

If someone invents a particle compressor that enables me to get everything I need into a 1 litre pack I'll be buying it. But being a lazy arse I like to make things easy, which for me means a slightly larger pack volume.

i like the lighter weight (more spare weight for proper food) which often comes with better volume control. i also like being able to just put things in my pack and take them out again without a major logistical exercise having to take place.

i like the "aero" over the "dairy milk" approach.

whatever size i've found stuffed packs to be far more uncomfortable than one with a bit of room to spare. (i have the omm 25l and 32l)

Se@n wrote (see)

If someone invents a particle compressor that enables me to get everything I need into a 1 litre pack I'll be buying it.

Ptarmigan - outdoorgeardeals.co.uk wrote (see)

. But the OP talks of an overnight load - not 3 nights - so 1.5kg less food. And a 25l OMM sack, which is considerably higher spec that the 20l pack Iused. And asks whether he can get his gear inside OR outside it. 

Fair enough-didn't notice the 'outside' bit Did you manage to get everything in by the end of the trip? I don't see how a higher spec pack would fit more in though- I know volume measurements vary from manu to manu,. but there's really not a lot in it. Personally I'm not a fan of strapping a lot onto the outside- maybe a sleep mat and that's it. 

Light gear does often take up less room anyway-I can fit my minim ultra sleeping bag into a cargo pocket on my trousers for example (Not that I do!). As for wearing my tent as a coat, it's a fair point. I had a try and managed to fit all of my gear into the main body of my pack (size small Z packs zero) including conventional rain gear with enough room for a tent-Mountain Laurel trail star, combined with  Titanium Goat bivvy but I wouldn't want to try a conventional tent.

I think you could get sufficient kit for an overnight into the OMM25, but you might have to take different kit. E.g. do you really need a VR top, and a windshirt and a waterproof jacket? Could you ditch the windshirt? Or could a lighter waterproof jacket take the place of two (e.g. Marmot Mica, Rab On Demand Pull on)

Do you need the dynamo, or would a synthetic vest be sufficent? Do you need full-on waterproof trousers, can you make do without, or would montane's windproof ones be ok? Do you need a bulky pair of gloves and a thin pair of gloves?

Of course, clothing choices depend on where you are going and what the weather will be.

My partner packs his waterproof gear into a exped dry bag and compresses it down before packing, and does the same with his 'insulation' gear.

I also obsess about volume, but my clothes are tiny, so it makes it easy! Tents, on the other hand! Oh for the perfect tent...! light, bombproof, small pack size, short poles, heather-proof, space to sit... so far I have not found it to exist!!!

Try the mountain laurel trailstar.:

"This is the lightest, largest, most storm-proof sub 1kg shelter I have ever used or seen, and quite possibly on the planet. Stability is so good that I cannot think of any other shelter even at up to three times its weight that could match it. At a cost of only £112 including p&p this is just an absolute bargain for the UK environment."

or:

I’ve heard the DuoMid described as a palace for one, the Trailstar must be a cathedral then. Photos don’t give a true idea of just how much room there is inside. For one person its almost comically large, with 2 there is loads of spare room for gear and a dog (not that I have one). If camping with others its a great place to congregate and talk the night away, before you kick them out to their own shelters. Personally I’ve only had up to 4 people inside, there is still plenty of room for others to sit in.

By "higher spec" I mean that it will handle the weight, rather than the the volume, better than the Laser 20. Tougher materials, more padding in the shoulder straps, a padded waist belt etc. My pack was overloaded in terms of weight as well as volume. My hiking partner on the trip used a more robust 30l pack and had no problems.

I did get everything inside by the end of the trip, without food it was easy as 3 days food was probably 1/3 of the total volume. 

I've reduced my volume quite a bit this year from trying to cycle camp without panniers or rucksack. The biggest volume saving came from using a NeoAir pad - very compact - the percentage volume savings from this pad are much larger than the weight savings. A smaller cooking pot, I went down to a 700ml from about 1l. Summer down sleeping bag, a zipless PHD Minimus. Unfortunately the pad and bag can't do for the winter so the volume will pop back up then.

Re-reading the OP's first post. The one bit of gear that stands out volume wise would be the Montane Dynamo. I would disagree that it's a "(very effective overlayer for its weight and volume)". A synthetic or down filled jacket would be better. Other than that, the hooded windshirt seems superfluous on top of the VR Jacket (also hooded isn't it or do they do a hoodless one too).

Having said all this though, just use a bigger pack!   

Ptarmigan - interested in your cycle-camp experiences, I agree summer camping is relatively easy, and the costs are reasonable for low-volume, e.g. an airbed is quite compact and warm enough, smaller than a Thermarest and cheaper than Neoair. But this breaks down in cooler months. I prefer cooler month cycle-camping, the roads and the campsites are quieter, currently centreing on an assumed 0C overnight temperature. I have been looked at what is involved in a -5C or -10C and the volume just rockets.I recently invested in the Minim 300 to get the temperature comfortable closer to 0C, and next investigating the mat options.

A cheat is to have the clothing for the lower temperature rating able to function for cycling and for campwear, and even to supplement the bag. I don't have all the answers but did have reasonable success with Paramo Cambia longjohns cool-side, under OMM Kamleika pants for cycling, reversing the cambia for sleeping, and a Torres gilet for campwear which became a footwarmer over the bag for sleep. But those tricks only afford a few degrees and gets you to the 7C daytime / 0C nighttime sort of range, not lower. I also struggle with footwear,next trip is probably hiking boots (only thing warm enough to cycle at 0C) and Powergrips.

I also like to keep the weight as low as possible for bike handling in any icy hiding from the morning sunshine.

Iv'e found that the biggist things, volume wise, are a tent, sleeping bag and sleeping mat. For a summer weekender, as long as I use dehydrated food, can fit into my 30l, with careful packing!!

 As others have said, I prefer taking a larger sac, 45l, I carry the same gear but less hassle due to extra space. Also means I can take 'luxurys', a bottle of malt, in stead of a half at most!!