Walking and Climbing

There's a piece on this just appeared on Grough too.

If you follow the link in the piece to the government's 'Red Tape Challenge' website and then put 'biodiversity' in the search box, you'll find the page to read the responses to their idea - quite heartening on the whole, and hopefully they'll climb down (but then again, they're politicians, so who knows...?)

In the bad old days when there was no access, I just used to walk wherever I wanted.

Then all this new access appeared, which meant I could walk wherever I wanted.

If they take it away from me... fine... I'll just continue to walk wherever I want to.

Basically, my family has been doing that for five generations!

I'm with Paddy too. 

 The newer OS maps showing access are just more (and imho unnecessarily) complicated. 

The Dartmoor places where you can camp diagram on the NP website is actually a step back from the old camp anywhere away from a roadside on open moor rule so I use my old 25k map which doesn't show access land.

 Yep - no access restrictions between the computer and the fridge

Kinley wrote (see)

 Yep - no access restrictions between the computer and the fridge

Sorry to resurect this thread if no-one is interested in it but personally I prefer access and rights of way to be enshrined in law rather than left to voluntary codes or the goodwill (or otherwise) of landowners.

The notion of 'cutting red tape' may be superficially seductive but, I fear, the government will use it to repeal good law along with bad. And this is just such a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I generally resist the urge to sign online petitions, support kneejerk campaigns or special-interest pleading but in the case of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act I am happy to add my voice. And I think it's worth keepinga wary eye on any government proposals that could affect outdoor leisure activity of any kind.

On the other hand, as Paddy says, if the legal framework is repealed I'll just go on walking more or less where I want. The only real hassles I've ever had are near MoD land and on midlands farmland.

YOu can't wlk where you want everywhere. Paddy is fortunate to come from Lakes where it was kind of accepted. Try that in the Forest of Bowland and you'll see what CRoWA has done for you.

I walked up there on the first day of it being applied anywhere in the country (FoB was one of two areas to come in first I believe). The local ramblers did a walk where anyone could come along into parts where there hadn't been access before. In fact it was in an area where even maintaining legal RoW were a battle for the local group with it being a big shooting area. We walked our route ok and without problem but it was a battle at times due to there being no paths across large swathes of it including to the tops of some hills.

I also remember walking over Clougha Pike and Ward Stones and there were some paths but it was not easy walking even where RoW were. I have been back there a few times and it took about 1.5 to 2 years before the paths were truly paths. We used to walk a route I got from a walking magazine a couple of times a year. Before CRoWA we couldn't make part of the path at all. After it the path had become about 0.5m wide, clear path. Not eroded or anything just walkeable nicely. Although there were RoW people didn't really use them that much as there was a feel of you not being allowed up there. Now it is a well used area by walkers and much better for it. On top of that the shooters don't lose out on its use so win for all.

I doubt the CRoWA is really under threat but it is better to have it for those areas that are very beautiful but underused before the act due to access reasons. If you never saw a difference because of where you walk then you were lucky back then. Lots of people have seen how positive the act has been. Support it for them. Of course the Red Tape Challenge is picking topics and running with them for a small period of time then moving to another couple of areas. If you miss the area you are interested in you have missed the chance to comment at all. I couldn't find out when the bit with the CRoWA in it or even if it had passed so the site is pretty useless unless you are willing to keep checking up on it every week.

I missed this thread first time around...

Hardly surprising that the tories are trying to scrap access legislation by the back door.  Rather pandering to their traditional supporters; 'get orf moi laaaand'...

I've noticed a lot of this 'air policies in public, and then do a u-turn' from this Government.

Now, if I were cynical, I might think that they're smokescreens; strawmen to distract attention from the policies they don't want to be exposed to too much scrutiny...

It also wastes lot of Government money looking at the consequences 'properly' (e.g. the FC sell-off).  Whilst I'm in favour of doing sensible analysis before making a decision, many of these policies could be discarded as brainless without a great deal of thought; a couple of minutes, perhaps...

Lil,

Large parts of the Forest of Bowland have been open access for donkeys years as owned by United Utilities - and before that NWW.  I was a link between the NFU and NWW between um, 1989 and 1998 and this state of affairs predated my involvement.  To be fair, though, the Duchy Estate was always very much out of bounds as a rule.

And CROW is nothing to do with paths - its about access! You can have access to land where there is no path or right of way - but you dont need one as it is access land.

Personally, whilst I understand paths are a neccessary evil, there is nothing better (IMHO) than striking out over rough ground...like Scotland, chunks of the Lakes, bits of Wales...oh...and the Trough of Bowland.

As previously stated the CROW act gives a statutory right of Access to certain land but only to those on foot not bike riders or horse riders.  It does not create Rights of Way or any kind of obligation on landowners to facilitate access say from one field to another if a dry stone wall obstructs your way by creating styles, gates or the like.  You can climb over such obstructions but need to ensure that you cause no damage in the process.  CROW is therefore far from perfect but it is better than the legal position pre CROW and issues concerning Trespass etc.

The so called "Red Tape" website www.redtapechallenge.cabinetoffice.gov.uk highlights a different sector of legislation each month.  CROW will be highlighted in the Enviroment sector (under the spotlight in early September).  The website fulfills a Government commitment, made during the General Election, to allow the Public to give an opinion on legislation (Red Tape) that they think would benefit from being changed.  Neither the Ramblers or the BMC have opposed the concept as they look on it as an opportunity to make known their views on how CROW could be amended so as to improve Access Rights.  The Ramblers advice is that walkers unite in making their voice known.  In the coming weeks both the BMC and the Ramblers will be publishing (online) template responses to copy and paste onto the Red Tape Challenge website for those who would like guidance on issues to highlight.  I hope OM will support this initiative and give it wider publicity