 Having just seen yet another advert for the peak district in an italian magazine and further to quite a few threads on wild camping etc. asking about the legal aspects of wild camping and noticing in general a seeming obsession with putting up signs saying no overnight parking, no overnight stays and so on in places usually adequately contiminated by the roads and carparks and laybys themselves, I wondered if anybody has any ideas as to why. Where did this all this start? What is it about night time and sleeping that so irks the authorities? It's seems madness to me (as do most things these days) where parks and regions advertise in a desparate attempt to draw people in, even from abroad ffs, to walk about the hills and visit the parks meaning they can stomp all over the place in ever increasng and unrestricted numbers, and according to the authorities themselves generally cause damage, yet at night it all becomes illegal and undesirable and sleeping in a sleeping bag on a hill will get you moved on. As usual it seems totally hypocritical. Thoughts?
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| Edited: 19/05/11 11:23 |
Did you hear of the lass who got done for sleeping in her car on a layby on a country road? Got arrested or something. Think someone posted it on here once. I now what you mean about the signs there are laybys in the Lakes on major roads through the NP that have no ovenight parking signs one even has a 2 hour limit on it too!! FFS what is the point of a 2 hour limit (or something similarly daft)? Are people supposed to park up and walk for such a short period of time? Not metering the car parking there just metering the hills. I do most of my wildcamping in the Lakes and know it all well so there are always safe and free carparking spots if you know where they are. Never had a problem with coming back to a broken window neither. Seen it in the Peak District as a kid a row of cars in a country layby where people walk from with all of them with broken windows. Never seen a broken into car in the Lakes yet. Anyway there are so may places free to park that you can easily ignore the places with daft signs.
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 I think the "no overnight stays" in carparks and laybys policy may have come about to stop crusty travelling types setting up semi-permanent camps. Wildcamping is technically illegal in all the National Parks in England except for Dartmoor, I think; possibly a badly thought attempt to stop irresponsible types setting fire to the place and leaving rubbish lying about.
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| Edited: 19/05/11 11:41 |
New Forest also allows wildcamping IIRC. I never really thought of the traveller issue. You can't distinguish in law or byelaws between crusties and backpackers leaving a car there for an overnighter. It all makes you want to use the excellent public transport system instead of your car. Oh! Forgot this is Britain, we have shut down a lot of the rural train network or at least curtailed the number of trains, the buses are irregular at best and it all costs way too much anyway. I couldn't drive for 2 or 3 months a few years back so looked into train and bus travel to go walking. I live on the excellent 555 route or X55 but further south than the Lakes part. I could get a very early bus and end up sat in Kendal bus station for a while to get further north. I also worked out that on a sunday when I could get out in the hills the service was so bad that I would get to the start of the walk and have half an hour before the bus I needed to get back would go past. I checked out into the nearer 3 peaks area and that was a little better. I could walk for just under 2 hours. If you do use public transport to get anywhere it does take a full day at each end for travelling or perhaps longer in some cases. By car it is also best part of the day but you can usually get to places and have a short wander before dinner and pub calls. Or at least park up and walk a few hours into the hills to camp. Nope for me its car everytime and hunting those safe and free carparking spots.
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 I think the "no overnight stays" in carparks and laybys policy may have come about to stop crusty travelling types setting up semi-permanent camps.
You can't have discriminatory laws, so if you want to ban one small minority from sleeping in a lay-by, or on a hillside, you end up having to ban the entire population. However, that raises an interesting point for those smart pubs that have a 'Hikers Bar' in a dingy room round the back. If they'd put up a sign saying 'Ethnic Minorities Bar', or whatever, they'd be shut down before they even had chance to open!
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 This is just me thoughts on the matter. When they started putting down double track roads in the Highlands, they left portions of the single track roads ( complete with culverts ) along side the new road, loads of caravaners ect used to stop at the roadside and park up there ( good for the Highlands I would have thought ), however when the "New Age Travellers" started to appear they made camp and stayed there for months, the council used to move them on after a while. The council then dug up the culverts so you could no longer drive down the single track road and either put a pile of ground or dug up the way onto the old road. When they were renewing the single track roads the old bridges were left but they council later returned and took down the old bridges as they claimed they were still liable if someone was standing on the bridge and it collapsed, so to get round that they took them down, I dont know if they are still liable for anyone on the old roads though, even on the A9 they have no overnight parking signs, no doubt so they can move folk on without an argument.
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I sometimes suspect those in positions of power just dislike the thought of others doing something that costs little or nothing, and over which they have no control. I mean, where would it all end if the public came to believe you don't have to spend money to enjoy yourself, and that self reliance is a good thing?
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 "If you do use public transport to get anywhere it does take a full day at each end for travelling " somewhat dependent upon where from and to are. pubs probably have a hikers bar rather than a sign forbidding wet, muddy, scruffy oiks from cluttering up and despoiling the proper bar where proper clean(ish) money spending people go. can't stay overnight stops anyone setting up home by the roadside. or anywhere else for that matter. as everywhere is owned by someone it's not unreasonable. wild camping is never a problem. well, only IF you're caught.
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 The train service is much better than people often think. Cost is an issue but getting there can be cheap if booked ahead, similar if you add a day to your trip to cover eventualities. I live in North Lincolnshire,and finished Pennine Way, Kirk Yetholm at 5pm had pint and meal, shared a taxi to Berwick ,home at Midnight ,similar recently from two trips from Lichfield and Cheltenham. Can be in the Peaks and the Dales by train within two and a half hours for £12 or so. I do have senior rail card and a have a car but its not worth taking out and worrying about the state of it when I get back to it in some layby, and now its probably more expensive. Let the train take the strain.
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 Most "No Overnight Parking" signs (at least in Jockshire) have no info on penalties or on whose authority. I doubt they have legal force. As for being moved on - sure the police can ask you to - I heard a good response is to state that you are likely to fall asleep at the wheel and have pulled over to rest until you are fit to drive. As you're required by law not to drive if in danger of falling asleep that puts them in an interesting position
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No overnight parking signs used to be everywhere - especially places like Skye, there was one in every layby. Then for a while a lot of them disappeared but they seem to be reappearing again. I think the "no overnight stays" in carparks and laybys policy may have come about to stop crusty travelling types setting up semi-permanent camps.
I think that is part of the reason but they also seem to appear wherever there is a campsite in the vicinity - coincidence or something else? We own a campervan and we like the occasional overnight in a favourite 'wild' spot especially enroute to distant locations, but if there is a campsite in the neighbourhood and we can arrive at a reasonable time we would generally use it. It does make it very difficult for people who want to leave their car and go off into the hills with a tent if these signs continue to multiply - I don't think the signs are aimed at these people.
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| Edited: 19/05/11 18:44 |
 It'a crap like this that makes me angry, Nothing left to tax, lets tax the moon 
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