 ooh thanks mal. i'll check that out as the last time i looked ages ago you couldn't, unlike other cards, get the network railcard loaded. i think i may still need a card card though for use at places whcih aren't oystered yet. matt, i spotted the oyster machine (like a condom machine!) at a central london station (don't remember which one) - £5 which was £3 deposit on the card and £2 loaded - whilst i waited for the Angel. an entertaining time was had watching people who don't understand nor are able to work for themselves how the barriers work. (the barriers have sensors just before the actual gates - a small square plastic bit - and if you obstruct these your ticket/card won't work as the machine thinks you're trying to filch two people through - on the other side in theory they are there to stop the gates slamming shut on you. so the knack is hold your oyster card out and place it on the reader before you get to the barrier which gives the machine time to recognise it and act and just lets you walk straight through without breaking step) and if you buy an oyster card in a shop you can make up any old address you like if they insist you fill out a form.
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No form filling required anymore, just buy over the counter.
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lol. i've had my oyster card since they were introduced and am a bit behind the times with developments. they have speeded up buses immeasurably as people just get on and beep their card.
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 bedders you obviously don't live in or use public transport in london as you demonstrate such terminal ignorance of how it works. what on earth is a travel card? do they STILL have those?
Errrr... as has already been pointed out...... YES! Anyway how do you feel the consumer has benefited from Oyster? it's cheap and effective. you want selfish flexible? drive (falls on floor with laughter) or get a taxi and see how "cheap" those options are comparatively.
CHEAP???? =8O Look at what the average comuter pays in Paris, New York, Tokyo etc for a weeks travel..... now tell me TFL is "Cheap"! flash with the pointless but it looks good because i don't have to think nor give evidence % there bedders. like to back that up with some real world numbers? Well.... Minimum wage is £222.37 a week minus £15.72 tax and £10.01 NI giving a take home of £196.63. A 1-6 zone travelcard (its what gones ON TO your oyster!) is £50.40 Which means that a minimum wage worker would pay 26% of their nett pay for a 1-6 zone travelcard. "Cheap" Huh! How you feel paying 26% of your income for the commute into work?
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matt, i spotted the oyster machine (like a condom machine!) at a central london station (don't remember which one) - £5 which was £3 deposit on the card and £2 loaded - whilst i waited for the Angel.
The reason that you could do this i.e. pay £5 for £3 deposit and £2 loaded is becasue TFL haven't got around to changing the machines. Everywhere else its £5 deposit and fook all loaded. It would appear that TFL were forced into upping the deposit from £3 to £5 because so many people where finding it cheaper to dump the Oyster with the negative balance and get new card than pay the "cheap" fare that caused the negative balance in the first place ..... ho hum!
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| Edited: 11/07/11 18:29 |
why do you think it hasn't benefited those who live in london? does public transport only operate for commuters? what drivel to compare the non-comparable other country's commute fares. that has nothing to do with cheap in this country. if you used public transport in london you could answer your own questions. it's obvious that you don't.
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Hi All, Can anyone comment why public transport in the UK is so expensive. Cheers, Stephen
Yes, because it is deregulated (buses outside London) and privatised (trains), and we put less investment into the network than other countries.
As far as trains go, the Department for Transport allows regulated fares to go up above the rate of inflation each year (that is their policy). De-regulated fares go up more than that because train operators are on declining subsidy or premium payment profiles on their franchise, as well as because they can and need to line the pockets of their shareholders. Also over the decades, motoring costs have been kept artificially low (the cost to users of road transport doesn't cover the costs it imposes) which has skewed the transport market in favour of the car. A more level playing field would see more people on public transport. Public transport is then left with fewer users to cover rising costs of operation. On top of that there are other factors at work. Fuel duty rebate for bus companies used to be 100%, which got cut to 80% and is going to be cut again in April 2012. The free national bus passes for older people has also played a part - bus companies do not get paid for all the pass holders they carry. The reimbursement method is based on average fare paid by everyone else. Consequently there has been an incentive to increase fares to increase income from free pass holders (and if you lose some fare payers in the process, revenue is still up overall). From this year bus companies have been well and truly stuffed by the government in terms of free pass holders, and will be the reason for yet more fares increases and some routes disappearing.
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 Trains are a rip off with no sense to the pricing. Trying different combinations of stops I could save about £50 between Plymouth and Oxenholme travelling on the same train! i.e. Instead of buying Plymouth to Oxenholme do something like Plymouth to Taunton, Taunton to Brum, Brum to Oxenholme. All on the same website! 
I used to commute a lot to London From Cheltenham - nearly £100, same time arrival in London from Evesham, same time on train, and same time to get to the station £36. Wurz's option works, but makes no sense, ( I am lead to believe there is a website) as does the Mega train option - but the station options are limited. some of the reasons I have heard are the cost of engines and carriages - but how long does it take to get payback with the fares we pay. Costs the old Railtrak used to charge for stopping. I am not sure what types of salaries staff are on, but imagine Train managers arent particularly well paid for the level of abuse they can recieve.
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 What's a train manager? Edit It's ok, I found it and the average salary is about £27,000.
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| Edited: 17/07/11 23:36 |
 On top of that there are other factors at work. Fuel duty rebate for bus companies used to be 100%, which got cut to 80% and is going to be cut again in April 2012. The free national bus passes for older people has also played a part - bus companies do not get paid for all the pass holders they carry. The reimbursement method is based on average fare paid by everyone else. Consequently there has been an incentive to increase fares to increase income from free pass holders (and if you lose some fare payers in the process, revenue is still up overall). From this year bus companies have been well and truly stuffed by the government in terms of free pass holders, and will be the reason for yet more fares increases and some routes disappearing.
Now, don't go messing up this thread with your reasoned and informed comment . You're right about the fuel duty rebate (or Bus Service Operator's Grant as it is now called). It was cut to 80% from 100%, although oddly enough, rail and airline companies still get a 100% rebate on their fuel duty. I was Finance Director of a bus company a few years ago and the free bus pass scheme was just coming in as I left. It was already proving to be a nightmare to administer and it sounds as though things haven't improved.
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What's a train manager? Edit It's ok, I found it and the average salary is about £27,000.
We used to call them Guards, but appears the name has changed with some companies. I'm off to apply - free rail travel to I bet!
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What's a train manager? Edit It's ok, I found it and the average salary is about £27,000.
We used to call them Guards, but appears the name has changed with some companies. I'm off to apply - free rail travel to I bet i want that job, unsocial hours i already do, dealing with eejits yip do that. £27000 think ive been conned i dont get that so i fancy being a train manager
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 Free rail travel is luvvly! And I don't even have to deal with the public
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Now, don't go messing up this thread with your reasoned and informed comment. You're right about the fuel duty rebate (or Bus Service Operator's Grant as it is now called). It was cut to 80% from 100%, although oddly enough, rail and airline companies still get a 100% rebate on their fuel duty. I was Finance Director of a bus company a few years ago and the free bus pass scheme was just coming in as I left. It was already proving to be a nightmare to administer and it sounds as though things haven't improved.
I'll get me coat...! 
I still keep forgetting its BSOG even though it has been for ages... The administration of free passes has become a lot more complicated from April this year. Operators are going to be about 20 - 30% down on reimbursement this year, but will still have to carry the same number of pass holders for that...
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some of the reasons I have heard are the cost of engines and carriages - but how long does it take to get payback with the fares we pay. Costs the old Railtrak used to charge for stopping. I am not sure what types of salaries staff are on, but imagine Train managers arent particularly well paid for the level of abuse they can recieve.
Rolling stock is largely owned by leasing companies. Arguably the older stock was paid for long ago, so the leasing companies are doing very nicely thank you out of that. When privatisation took place, rolling stock was grossly undervalued to make the privatisation attractive, so the leasing companies were laughing all the way to the bank with that. As far as new stock is concerned, the problem is that stock has a life of 30 to 40 years and train operating franchises are about 8 years. If a new franchisee has new stock, the leasing company seeks to recoup most of the cost in a shorter time period because apparently there is a "risk" the next franchisee won't want to lease that stock (even though they know full well they'll have to). These inflated costs are inevitably passed on to the passenger. It has been argued for ages that franchises are far too short for sensible investment decisions to be made. The only long franchise is Chiltern who got a 20 year one - and they are putting serious cash into their operation because they can recoup it over a longer time scale.
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 Note for older walkers. As senior railcard owner it is cheaper for me to use it to get from Lincolnshire to the Dales, Lakes or the Peak than driving. Not so train to Scotland but I fly there as the time of the journey often lands you late into an area needing a B and B. If you factor in the cost of the B and B the flight does a make sense. Pretty personal though as I live within half a mile of an airport. Car journeys should also factor in the depreciation of adding loads of miles onto your vehicle, not just fuel costs. Especially if you are a regular walker and car traveller.
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Hi everyone, I hope this counts as useful information rather than shameless spamming, but the organisation I work for has just launched http://www.FixMyTransport.com - a site that makes it very easy to contact transport providers about any issues, and also puts them in the public domain. For anyone who is particularly concerned about transport prices, this'd be a great platform to get a campaign rolling. You can either make one-off contact, or start a page that others can then add their name to. Give it a go; I hope it's helpful. We really hope this site will get operators listening and get things changed for the better.
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