.JPG) You're quoting a different survey mentioned in the test. Not the test .
Results: The high-top shoes significantly reduced the
amount and rate of inversion. The high-top shoes reduced the
amount of inversion by 4.5°, the maximum rate of inversion by
100.1 °/s, and the average rate of inversion by 73.0°/s.
Conclusions: The high-top shoes were more effective in
reducing the amount and rate of inversion than the low-top
shoes. Depending upon the loading conditions, high-top shoes
may help prevent some ankle sprains.
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 An 'inversion' isn't the same as an injury though, and my experience is that i 'invert' more in boots than i do in shoes. So i am more likely to twist my ankle wearing boots.
Conclusions: The high-top shoes were more effective in
reducing the amount and rate of inversion than the low-top
shoes. Depending upon the loading conditions, high-top shoes
may help prevent some ankle sprains.
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If the data I have provided is not acceptable to you, then that is your misfortune.
an ankle inversion is a set of circumstances likely to lead to an ankle injury and therefore an appropriate test to determine the probability of injury under those circumstances.
You don't "invert more" in boots, since the boots help prevent this. You may "invert" more frequently which is not the same thing.
I find the opposite to you, that I am more likely to suffer a painful inversion wearing shoes than boots. My experience is equally valid.
Actually, since you have never experienced an ankle sprain in either boots or shoes then my experience is actually more relevant than yours since I have ..
Depending upon the loading conditions, high-top shoes
may help prevent some ankle sprains.
under certain circumstances, Robert may be your fraternal relative.
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Depending upon the loading conditions, clumpy hill-walking boots
may help prevent some ankle sprains, but they might make you trip more, so causing more ankle sprains than trail shoes.
under certain circumstances, Robert may be your fraternal relative.
Fixed it for you.
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Actually, since you have never experienced an ankle sprain in either boots or shoes then my experience is actually more relevant than yours since I have ..
I've had loads of 'inversions', though i manage to stop them before they cause injury. Like i said earlier. maybe you have poor reflexes, so that affects your thoughts on the matter?
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Anyway, enough for now. I'll keep an eye on the thread in case you post any links to studies involving hill-walking boots v trail shoes.
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Whether or not boots or shoes allow more effective placing of the feet and more or less tripping incidents occur in each case is a totally different question.
Since you don't take any notice of the findings of scientific test studies, why don't you just tell us what the findings will be ?
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 The middle-ground is mine: I wear mids 
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At the ppint of being pedantic - at last Rod, progress in that you have produced evidence to support your position. Whether that evidence is relevant or applicable I leave to others to decide. Just a point - in defence of Rod's evidence! The fact that it doesnt come to a 100% conlcusion (reference injuries) is of no surprise: a) thats not what it was looking at b) there are so many variables which could lower or raise the chance of injury that doing a study would be very difficult anyway. And dont discount other work referenced in the test - most of an experiment of this kind will be with reference to previous work so that it can be said they agree or disagree with the previous results/theories and hypothesis. Ok, as I am not that interested in this topic (but very interested in reasoned arguements) I am off to put on my high top boots and take the dog out. Why do I wear high top boots? The cuff stops them filling with cr-p the way shoes do. Do they stop my ankle turning - no idea. Sometimes I wear shoes for a walk about, sometimes boots. Havent noticed the slightest difference to date. Nor, from what I have seen, would any study guide me in either direction.
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 rod, you are determined to interpret an opinion or evidence as proof. gawd knows why. mm. in your "evidence " it states the torsional rigidity in the midsole MAY affect it too. which is exactly what i've been saying. i have answered all your question but you either refuse to read them or interpret them as proof of something or another that they certainly are not. none of my answers PROVE anything. they just cast doubt about the "apples" logic you apply to things. gosh! boots stop your ankle turning over by a certain degree (depending upon the study it depends what that value is) which, in your language, PROVES just what? (the natick research had the same conclusion by the way. but it didn't produce any difference in the injury rate.mmm...interesting....no?) there is a critical angle at which injury occurs. if you're going over then you're going over and it's going to hurt. i have NEVER said nor NEVER intimated that you only get support from rigid boots. i HAVE stated that you can obtain support from SPECIALIST boots LIKE ski, mountaineering boots because that is what they are designed to do. i have NEVER stated anything that PROVES anything. i have only recounted evidence that i think supports my opinion. so please pay attention bit more and your blood pressure would lessen. you can't be arsed to seek out valuable material because "it's too hard miss i can't do it can i go home now please miss". as i said before. tough. if you can't be arsed i certainly am not going to do it for you. meanwhile you still haven't provides links to this information you have gathered - you can't accuse someone of not providing handy links when you can't be arsed to do it your self. the site i pointed to and to which you have referrred yet again - i'll repeat my question yet again as the content of the question nor the actual site you like to refer to hasn't sunk in. the site said you should wear boots for heavy loads. it also said that ankle support is a myth. so why do you need to wear boots? answer this question rod. it's simple enough. gom - i only spout blx...why thank you. i've improved from total sh1te then...
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My links are visible in the posts above. Yours are somewhere in cyberspace amongst a huge site "natick" and you expect me to take the results as gospel.
You've ignored many questions and suppositions I've put to you and yet claim you have answered them. Sorry.
I really wish I could make you understand the basic correlation between preventing a damaging movement and support, but I fear you don't have the comprehension. You agree that support CAN exist, but like Brigadoon, it only appears in your world occasionally.
So you've recounted evidence that you think supports your case, and I have done the same while neither proves anything.
Yet you still are prepared to make an absolute statement as fact.
Why do you believe one phrase off that site "ankle support is a myth" and yet not believe other phrases off the same site ? I don't know why the site has points of view - you'd be better asking the writer of that material.
If an opinion or evidence does NOT show proof, then what does ?
Still waiting for an answer about how heel cups and footbeds offer support and your definition of "support".
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 Still waiting for an answer about how heel cups and footbeds offer support and your definition of "support". Just to address that a bit, I did a quick google and found this.I'm not claiming any knowledge of the site or the author but he does say he's a surgeon. http://thesportfactory.com/site/trainingnews/anklesprain.shtml I'll paste a few pertinent bits, not meaning to be selective, just offering the bits I noticed that seem relevant to that question. "There are specific contributing factor to ankle injuries. <...> A lot has to do with the biomechanics of the foot." "The first issue to consider is the center of gravity. Where does the center of gravity line up over the foot? Does a person have a tendency to roll to the outside of their shoe when the walk? Do they normally wear out shoes on the outside? If so, there's a strong likelihood that their body weight, or center of gravity, is not centered over their foot but more so over the outside of the foot. There's technical terms that are used to describe this combination of foot mechanics, such as forefoot valgus and rearfoot varus, but suffice it to say, these folks are predestined to sprain their ankles." There's a lot that can be done to prevent a second or recurrent series of sprains. The choice of treatment really depends upon the patient and their activities." "Let's look at some examples. Let's say a patient is involved in a unidirectional sport such as running. An ankle brace would be cumbersome and probably detract from the enjoyment of a run. For this patient we would use a prescription arch support referred to as an orthotic. The orthotic would be modified to control the lateral rotation of the foot and help to center the body weight back over the foot. An orthotic would be a great tool for the chronic ankle sprainer who is a runner or for use in street shoes." So, since footbeds with arch support and heel cups are in essence off-the-shelf orthotics, that's how they can offer 'support' to decrease the chance of ankle sprain, i.e by improving weight distribution and stability.
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 Heel cup fit certainly makes a big difference to stability. Its very easy to test emprically - place your feet in the sort of position from which it'll start to roll wearing different footwear and see where your weight goes. I did that with various shoes after doing my ankle, and it really was very evident. Some of them my weight just kept going the wrong way but with the odd one I just couldn't even really start to overbalance myself. Close colleration with how well my heels locked into the shoe.
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What would you say was the important factor in the different performance of the heel cups in those shoes/boots ?
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In essence - fit. You need to get heel cups that fit your foot and the boot - if they are too big for your foot, your foot will slop about and if too small for your boot, they will slop about. I am very lucky - I have absolutely bog standard size 11 feet so can use off the shelf footbeds. My foster brother has to have his made - think they are over £100, but as he is a farmer and walks miles in wellies, (just thought - ultimate high top boot...and no "support" at all) he has all sorts of foot/toe issues without
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