 ♥ For the husband who told his wife, "I love you" one last time before his plane went down in a field, for the wife who stopped in the stairs to call her husband to say, "I will love you forever", for the mothers and fathers who kissed their kids goodbye the morning they died, for the policemen who rushed in with the firemen to help get others out only to die themselves, for the soldiers who fought back and lost their lives. Today, tomorrow, ten years from now, we will remember R.I.P ♥
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Actually, whilst tragic, perhaps another way to look at this is: The dead are dead. Let us remember the living, the husbands who lost wives, the wives who lost husbands, the children who lost parents - the people who live and relive the personal pain every time a film of the towers collapsing is shown, who live and continue to live through the constant analyses and opinion about what happened and why. The people who lie awake in the dark and who hear their loved one die night after night. For those people I am sorry for you in your time of trouble. But they didnt die in vain. In my opinion the twin towers brought the incentive to Ireland to drive the Peace process. It gave the "doves" the political strength to tell the "hawks" enough is enough and it has to stop - and it did. I have no idea how many lives have been saved as a result nor do I know how much pain has been prevented - but much has been gained.
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 The day the chickens came home to roost?
The killing of anyone is wrong. Does a mother or father that died in the My Lai atrocity deserve any less remembrance than those of the world trade centre? What about the 1000's of civilians that disappeared or were tortured to death in south America with the tacit approval/funding of the US administration? do these innocent civilians deserve to be remembered?
>But they didnt die in vain. In my opinion the twin towers brought the incentive to Ireland to >drive the Peace process. It gave the "doves" the political strength to tell the "hawks" >enough is enough and it has to stop - and it did.
I think your wrong with regards the hawks and doves. The Hawks were able to "use" 9/11 as a cover for all sorts of international crimes..... 'Extraordinary Rendition' the suspension of the Geneva convention especially article 3. The US's sanctioning of torture i.e. water boarding etc at Guantanamo, the globally notorious actions that went on at Abu Ghraib, "The War on Terror" to list a few.
Maybe now with Obama things are moderating but the last 10 years has left a stain on the US that I doubt will ever be forgotten or forgiven.
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Wrong hawks - I was refering to the hawks and doves within the Irish terrorist groups (both sides).
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O.K but point still stands.
Its also interesting to note the decades of apathy the US showed towards the killing in Ireland especially as US citizens were openly fundraising for these terrorist organisations.
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Indeed. As I grew up in Belfast in the 1970s, I am fully aware of the effects of US foreign policy at the time. But this is not the thread for such discussion. If you wish to have a wider discussion of US/UK foreign policy, please start a thread to that effect.
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>As I grew up in Belfast in the 1970s
I thought there might have been a link somewhere!
Isn't the OP and US/UK foreign policy inextricably linked?
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No. The OP is refering directly and solely to the casualties of one incident. The OP makes no reference (nor, do I think he wants to) to the cause, motivation or reasons for that incident. In my view that is a fair, reasonable and correct thing to do as to do so is inappropriate for these circumstances. What I did was link the incident he refers to another circumstance, where it may be said the dreadful and negative circumstance of the Twin Towers lead to a positive outcome - which may or may not be of some solace to someone directly effected by the Twin Towers reading this. I repeat my invitation - if you wish to have a debate about UK/US foreign policy, please start a thread on the subject.
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And for the 15,000 (give or take a tower full or two) afghanistan civilians who never got a chance to say goodbye to anyone.
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 nice words didster. for those people indeed.
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 But this is not the thread for such discussion. If you wish to have a wider discussion of US/UK foreign policy, please start a thread to that effect.
Er, so what are we allowed to talk about on this thread, then?
Is it just for mawkish grief-whoring or can we discuss the wider implications?
GOF wrote (see)
What I did was link the incident he refers to another circumstance, where it may be said the dreadful and negative circumstance of the Twin Towers lead to a positive outcome - which may or may not be of some solace to someone directly effected by the Twin Towers reading this.
Very little effect on the Irish peace process - PIRA was a spent force by 2001 and their leaders knew it. Of course it might been resolved sooner if the Septics hadn't been actively supporting the IRA for years. But, as they found out in 2001, it's more fun supporting terrorists when their actions kill and maim people in another country than when it happens on your own doorstep. Positive outcome? 2 wars of dubious legality, costing thousands of lives (including those of some of our servicemen) and billions of dollars? Repressive legislation in the US and Europe accompanied by a paranoid security infrastructure restricting freedom and costing billions of dollars? The US losing the last vestiges of its moral authority by indulging in torture, rendition to repugnant regimes and extra-judicial killings? If that's a positive outcome, I'd hate to see what you think is a negative one.
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The wars that Bush and Blair took us into had, I think, relatively little to do with the twin towers, good excuse they might have been. As for the PIRA (and by using that name I guess you have a security force background) being a spent force...well, it was also acknowleged that they couldnt be beaten by everything the army and police could throw at them. Stalemate it was..
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