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Cherpit Lane on the BBC
 
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Cherpit Lane on the BBC
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Richard Simpson
21/11/11 22:29
 Rookie 66 forum posts
If it's an 'other right of way' on the map, then it's on the List of Streets as a road maintainable at public expense.
1) It's a vehicular right of way
2) If it's out of repair then it's up to the CC to repair it - that's their legal duty.
But it looks quite passable to me.
Bear in mind that the historic records show that many roads became 'founderous' in winter long before the invention of the motor car...so probably not worth worrying about. However you can always serve notice on the council to repair it if you wish.
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Mal Mawr
22/11/11 15:27
 Rookie 12385 forum posts 58 photos 3 bookmarks
Richard Simpson wrote (see)
"I'm talking about a situation where most farms are small enough to be called smallholdings and border a large area of common grazing land. The farms are physically too small to sustain the stock the farmers put onto the moor" A well-known phenomena...economists use the 'tragedy of the commons' (overgrazing by communal farmers) to illustrate more general problems too. The question is: how many more farmers do we want to put out of business? Balance that against the preservation of artefacts, environment, amenities. Puts the 'problem' of 'off-roading' - when what they mean is legitimate use of non-tarmac roads - well into perspective though.

I don't believe that is at all the question. The fact is that erosion and destruction of drainage has degraded the land to a point where useful grazing is rapidly shrinking being replaced by quagmire and reed grass. In the foreseeable future there will be almost no grazing left. Those farmers are slowly but surely putting themselves out of business.

The problem is that ownership of most the land passed to the local council about 40 years ago and they cannot afford to repair the damage being done. Farmers clammer for restoration work while, acting in cooperation, they employ fodder companies to transport hay and pelleted food onto the common by massive tractors and heavy wagons driving illegally onto the common in winter.

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Richard Simpson
22/11/11 16:07
 Rookie 66 forum posts
The 'tragedy of the commons' was I believe first reported in Oxford at the time of the enclosures.

Farmers forced off their lands grazed their stock on the common...overgrazing meant each animal yielded less so they put more animals on to compensate...making the overgrazing even worse.

Perhaps if the land was under their ownership, they would take more care of it.

If you see vehicles being driven illegally onto the common (whether titchy little motorbikes or great big lorries/tractor-trailers) then please report them. Off-roaders (not greenlaners) are ruining the Peak District for everyone ESPECIALLY legitimate users such as myself.
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Mal Mawr
22/11/11 17:48
 Rookie 12385 forum posts 58 photos 3 bookmarks
I'm in a coryza induced befuddlement but still, I can't believe I wrote clammer for clamour.
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Edited: 22/11/11 17:49
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Jim Parkin
22/11/11 21:48
 Rookie 637 forum posts 10 photos 12 bookmarks

Richard Simpson wrote (see)
If it's an 'other right of way' on the map, then it's on the List of Streets as a road maintainable at public expense. 1) It's a vehicular right of way 2) If it's out of repair then it's up to the CC to repair it - that's their legal duty. But it looks quite passable to me. Bear in mind that the historic records show that many roads became 'founderous' in winter long before the invention of the motor car...so probably not worth worrying about. However you can always serve notice on the council to repair it if you wish.

I've just looked at the definitive rights of way map for Derbyshire, and it is marked as a path (going SW from SK104566) It is marked as a track for about half its length.

In other words it is a path not a BOAT.

In other words it looks as if those vehicles were not allowed there.

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Mal Mawr
22/11/11 22:30
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The Tragedy of The Commons is actually a treatise by Garrett Hardin, an American biologist who was a proponent of the concept of the selfish gene. It was not contemporaneous with the various acts of enclosure in Great Britain and Ireland since it was written in the 20th century.
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Jake
23/11/11 12:51
 Rookie 1841 forum posts 38 reviews 1 classified
Mal Mawr wrote (see)
I'm in a coryza induced befuddlement but still, I can't believe I wrote clammer for clamour.

Thank God for that - I thought someone had hacked your account
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Mal Mawr
23/11/11 13:14
 Rookie 12385 forum posts 58 photos 3 bookmarks

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Richard Simpson
24/11/11 14:55
 Rookie 66 forum posts
Hello Mal

The tragedy of the commons is a dilemma arising from the situation in which multiple individuals, acting independently and rationally consulting their own self-interest, will ultimately deplete a shared limited resource, even when it is clear that it is not in anyone's long-term interest for this to happen. This dilemma was first described in an influential article titled "The Tragedy of the Commons", written by ecologist Garrett Hardin and first published in the journal Science in 1968.[1]
Hardin's Commons Theory is frequently cited to support the notion of sustainable development, meshing economic growth and environmental protection, and has had an effect on numerous current issues, including the debate over global warming. An asserted impending "tragedy of the commons" is frequently warned of as a consequence for adopting policies which restrict private property and espouse expansion of public property.[2][3]
Central to Hardin's article is an example (first sketched in an 1833 pamphlet by William Forster Lloyd) of a hypothetical and simplified situation based on medieval land tenure in Europe, of herders sharing a common parcel of land, on which they are each entitled to let their cows graze. In Hardin's example, it is in each herder's interest to put the next (and succeeding) cows he acquires onto the land, even if the quality of the common is damaged for all as a result, through overgrazing. The herder receives all of the benefits from an additional cow, while the damage to the common is shared by the entire group. If all herders make this individually rational economic decision, the common will be depleted or even destroyed, to the detriment of all.
A similar dilemma of the commons had previously been discussed by agrarian reformers since the 18th century
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Richard Simpson
24/11/11 14:59
 Rookie 66 forum posts
Jim,

Were the vehicles on the part which a a 'path' on the DM?

Have you checked the List of Streets to see whether the portion which is 'track' on the DM is listed?

Is there a 'path' running parallel/alongside the 'track'?
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Scott
24/11/11 15:07
 Rookie 5281 forum posts 74 photos 1 review
Mal Mawr wrote (see)
I'm in a coryza induced befuddlement but still, I can't believe I wrote clammer for clamour.

I just assumed it was Welsh.

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Mal Mawr
25/11/11 11:22
 Rookie 12385 forum posts 58 photos 3 bookmarks

Hi, Richard, thank you for the explanation but I would have thought that this,

Mal Mawr wrote (see)
The Tragedy of The Commons is actually a treatise by Garrett Hardin, an American biologist who was a proponent of the concept of the selfish gene. It was not contemporaneous with the various acts of enclosure in Great Britain and Ireland since it was written in the 20th century.

would have hinted at the probability that I already knew what "The Tragedy of The Commons" was and that I had a fair idea of its subject material.

I took this, "The 'tragedy of the commons' was I believe first reported in Oxford at the time of the enclosures.", to mean that you didn't, since, as I said, the treatise was not contemporaneous with any of the acts of enclosure and you seemed to be suggesting that it was a justification for at least one of those them.

Sorry for the confusion, it's this bloody cold, again.

Scott, you may be right, I'll have to check it out.

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