Gear

Hey

I'm looking to buy a 4+ season sleeping bag bascially i freeze to death everytime i go out and can easierly use my mountain hardwear lamina 0 (-5) all through summer, however have a number of expeditions coming up so i need something light and very very warm.

Any advice or other people sleep as cold as me

Thanks

Annie

Light and very very warm? Do you have a budget in mind? (needs to be big!)

From OM's resident human iceberg and owner of a -20 rated bag for camping when the temperature goes near zero (centigrade)

Ok, I went for a PHD Designs bag - the Hispar, because it was a good balance between lightweight and warmth. I got a Hispar 700, which is not one of their regular bags; they did it as a special for me, it was just before they went on general sale. They also offered me the opportunity to send it back to have additional down put in if I still found I got cold in it. However, I didn't, instead I bought some of their minimus down trousers as well because that provides me with better flexibility to use in other bags, and in camp before going to bed.

But as Cathy says, have a look at Rab and ME, but I do think it's worth talking to them to see if they'd add more down at a later date if you find it necessary.

Other non UK companies worth looking at are Western Mountaineering in the US, though there you may have to import from the US if there's no UK source for your specific bag, and OM's John Burley swears by French company Valandre.

About -7, but that was wearing down trousers, down jacket and down socks too. I was toasty warm in all that stuff, but not over-heating!

And Matt's question about mats is pertinent too - I was sleeping on an Exped Downmat which gives very good insulation from the ground.

There's other things to consider too, like ensuring you've eaten shortly before bedding down, running around like a blue-arsed fly to generate some heat before begging in the bag, using a Sigg bottle as a hottie.

From experience I can vouch for ME & PHD bags for quality but not used one warm enough for you.  I use a very warm Marmot Lithium for those sort of temps & like Kates Hispar is a 'proper' mummy bag with short zip - without which you wouldn't be able to get in the bag.   The ME are mummy but not to the same degree.   The current Lithium now only(!) uses 850+ fill down unfortunately (down from 900+)

The Prolite is designed to be as light as reasonably possible as a "4 season" mat, but that's 4 seasons for people who don't routinely spend the night shivering.  So I'd join suggestions to up the insulation underneath you and the downmat is as warm as it gets.

I used to own an ME Iceline bag but eventually sold it on as in 7 years I only got the zip done up all night on one occasion (when it was < -20C outside, and my tent-mate was freezing in two bags...  I did do up the shoulder collar, but not the hood and was pleasantly toasty just in base-layers inside). The buyer was a friend who always seemed to be cold at night.  I don't think she's ever complained about the Iceline though.  Before it was sold it was also lent to a couple of other pals who'd be cold in almost anything, and they really appreciated "The Toaster" as something they'd get a good night's sleep in.

Pete.

Many good points highlighted above.

In temperatures around freeing and below, I always use a second sleeping mat which helps a lot. I'd rather be too warm an open the zip up, than be cold, so as cathyjc says, buy the best you can afford.

Important to get a sleeping bag that has a good DWR treated outer layer such as the Mountain Equipment  Extreme and Glacier series. Had a few occasions when my down bag got wet in different circumstanceswhich is not what you want on multi day trips.

Another possible approach is to consider using two sleeping bags, by getting something such as the PHD Combi to go outside your existing bag. If your Lamina is rated at -5 then the combination should rate at around -25.

There's a slight downside in terms of weight and bulk compared to a single super-warm bag, but a benefit in cost and versatility.

This article by Andy Kirkpatrick explains the concept a bit more - it's written from a climber's perspective, and also focusses on using a synthetic outer bag (which is perhaps more relevant to his snowholing and big-wall environment), but it gives a bit of credibility to the idea, and I know there are a few of us on OM who have gone that way.

And an Exped Downmat (or the Synmat version) would be warmer underneath than your Prolite. I think the new lighter models are due out around Feb/March though, so you might not want to wait for those. The existing versions aren't particularly heavy, and certainly not bulky, considering the insulation they provide.

Important to get a sleeping bag that has a good DWR treated outer layer

I would say important to make sure it doesn't get wet.  A water resistand outer is a factor in how to go about that but I don't think it's vital (says he with ME Drilite shells on both his bags...  but also says he with a wife who has a summer bag used in the same places as mine that doesn't have such a shell, and no disasters to date).

Pete.