 Hi folks,
I was recently looking on Webtogs and Hike lite at various primaloft jackets which they listed as having fill weights of over 400gm2.
On further investigation they had added the fill weights of the body hood and arms to get the figure.
Would I right in saying they have dropped the ball on this or do I owe said shops an apology.
Sorry I cant post links as posting phone.
Cheers,
Stephen
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 Not sure if I'm reading this right Stephen but surely if it's gram per square metre it won't matter whether or not the hood and arms are included.
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Hi At,
Your right on that.
The items in question had different gm2 figures for the hood, body and arms of the jackets, this is fairly standard practice.
What the shops had done was add the 3 figures together, thus doubing to tripeling the gm2.
Cheers
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Ah I see. No that doesn't sound right! A bit like adding percentages together! Me thinks they need a lesson in maths!
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They sure do AT  I was quiet surprised by it as both companies like to think they are gear specialists, I woud be the equivalent of a Vw dealer saying a 1.6 petrol Golf gets 120 miles to the gallon and a top speed of 300 odd miles an hour.
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 They sure do AT I was quiet surprised by it as both companies like to think they are gear specialists, I woud be the equivalent of a Vw dealer saying a 1.6 petrol Golf gets 120 miles to the gallon and a top speed of 300 odd miles an hour. Stephen, garages or car handbooks would never give unrealistic figures, I just put it all dow to the way I drive.  But this perhaps demonstrated that those in putting stats onto websites have little or no idea. I have only entered the world of down this year, and so far the warmest winter you could imagine  But, the way the weights etc are given baffle me, not to mention down quality being a factor
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Hiya Chewie, I hear you about the driving mate Ya, the winter in the Uk has had a distinct lack of snow this year, but,its the same in parts on the continent also. Down clothing can be a bit of a minefield sometimes, I gave up looking at the specs and now just look at how fat it looks Cheers,
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I've seen a few retailers who've given the overall weight of a synthetic insulated jacket as the fill weight, which isn't very clever. Worse is that some manufacturers don't give fill weight at all, even in the "technical details" on their websites.
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 Stephen, "How fat it looks", I thought you are the Down expert? Fatness has nowt to do with warmth. It's the Quality of Down number, the higher that number the better,won't need as much down for same weight of lower No. Therefore, smaller for same warmth and will pack smaller, saving space. IIRC, quality no's of down start at 550 and go to 900. The same item at say, 600 would be bigger than 800, but the same weight. The 800 would pack into a far smaller size. 900 down is the best you can get at the moment, packs up into tiny sizes, BUT very few companies use it, because it's bloo*y expensive!!!!!!
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 Stephen's right, H. Fatness has everything to do with warmth. It's just that higher fill powers require less down to achieve the same fatness as lower fill powers.
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Don't agree Mrs.N, I've two sleeping bags rated to the same temp. by same company, the higher fill power one doesn't loft to as big as the lower rated one. If anything looks like a 'summer' bag compared together, but I've used both in same sort of conditions, tent, temps. and found that, the higher fill "feels" warmer. The high fill also packs to about 3/4's - 1/2 size of lower one. One's 600FP the other's 800FP, both rated at -18c.
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Hi Guys,
When I said I used fatness its only when comparing similar items.
I know a TNF Numpty thats as fat as PHD jacket wont be as warm.
Anyway back on track to those retailers who cant tell their arse from their elbow.
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 Stephen and Mrs N. are right. Insulation is all about trapping layer(s) of still air to retain heat - the greater the depth of this still air surrounding you the more insulation and the more heat retention. Higher fill power down will loft more than the same weight of lower quality down, or take less of it to fill the same volume, hence the benefits regarding weight and packed volume, but basically if a bag or jacket doesn't loft as much then it's not going to insulate as well, no matter what the fill power. There are so many variables in the field, huskyman, that the fact that one baf 'felt' warmer is very subjective. A lab test would be an objective comparison.
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I am fat too drunk to paticipate in the convetsation as we are in Edinburgh for our last Scottish trip before we head to the colonies.
Feck B**gium
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