Starting out?

I've just got off a week away with my better half in Scotland, and a couple who shared one of our sites were using their time away getting Mountain Days for their ML awards.

This got us thinking and we both want to gain the award, as we've both been outdoors every moment we have since our Beaver Scout days.

However, I went onto the website and there doesn't seem to be any clear description of how to sign up. Do I literally just fill in the form on http://www.mltuk.org/ml.php and send it off with a Cheque?

I feel that it is rather simple and that I'm over-complicating it, but some advice would help.

Many thanks.

Yes. It is that simple!

You'll get a little ring-binder with the ML syllabus in it and lots of proforma pages to log your walking.

Brilliant. Many thanks for the quick replys. I totally forgot to put in my 2nd question.

From what I can understand WGL and ML are two completely different beasts, and qualifying days for both have different criterea. Is there any harm in having both awards running concurrently? Using lowland days for WGL and hill days for ML? From reading the course outlines I would hesitate to say that WGL is easier, but it has been made to sound like a stepping stone to ML from some of the literature that I've read.

A lot of people go straight into the ML and don't bother with the WGL, because the ML encompasses just about everything in the WGL and goes further (higher, rougher ground / ropework / ?wildcamps etc.) I've heard some say that the WGL nav can be tougher because of having to deal with nav and ROWs in farmland which can be complex, but your nav's got to be good whichever qualification you're going for.

You can do WGL assessment on the back of ML training - you can't do the reverse, so if you're not sure what qualification is for you, then it'd probably be best to aim for the ML training. Then you can do either assessment.

I really enjoyed the ML training because it pushed me in some areas, I suspect I'd have found the WGL training a bit mundane!

an excerpt from the MLTE page for those who don't know:

Think of WGL as ML without the wild camping, the movement on steep ground or the ropework. The standard of navigation is the same but does not involve steep or rocky terrain. You are expected to navigate with the same accuracy as for ML but over terrain known variously as moorland, hill, fell, bog or down. The terrain is well defined by obvious boundaries, such as roads and coastlines.

This award is for leaders of walking groups in non-mountainous hilly terrain, known variously as upland, moor, bog, hill, fell or down. Such areas are often subject to extreme weather conditions and require an element of self-sufficiency. The scheme seeks to develop the skills necessary to lead walking groups in these areas.

Leaders seeking to take groups into mountain terrain should register for the ML Award, although the WGL Award can be a valuable stepping stone for those wishing to progress to the ML scheme.

So, WGL country isn't necessarily 'lowland'   you could be  on a high plateau - and definitely not farmland (well, no more than ML would be e.g. during course or assessment we only went through farmland to get to the open country).

I'd say,   if you haven't got the logbook days already, and aren't sure how long until you will go for ML assessment (could take some time due to needing to get your logbook filled)  then consider doing the WGL course as a taster.  It's only 3 days and will get you familiarised with the  Nav/Group management levels required of both awards.

I needed an Leadership qualification for one of my jobs (Youth Work on Dartmoor ). So I did a WGL.  I don't intend to lead groups in ML country and am happy with all the ML practice except ropework really.  And like most hillwalkers I don't use ropework as part of my hillwalking . Also time cost were a consideration - courses/assessment was paid forbut time off wasn't.

For my Logbook, due to the fact that most of my non-Dartmoor Hill Days had been in 'ML terrain' not WGL,  those days were accepted for WGL  - as you need experience on quite a few areas.  (though I have well over 400 Dartmoor days)

On the course:  There were 6 of us.  I would say that 4 of the 6 were quite surprised at the level of navigational competence needed, and had to work hard due to some of it being new knowledge.   

I found it a welcome refresher and have polished my nav practice since - I'd been adequate before (been a selfsufficient hill navigator since 1984) but am much more 'precise' all the time now even when not leading (unless just having a random wander).

I did the assessment 2 months later in February.  There were 4 of us.  2 had done  the ML training course, not WGL.  I'm pretty certain that one of the ML trained people failed on nav. (I wouldn't have wanted him leading me in poor conditions...).

Funnily enough, due to funding issues I've never needed my WGL for that job!  But have been able to help train our  Explorer Scouts teams for Ten Tors for the last 2 seasons, which is very rewarding.

I'm with Kate.

  If you arent sure, I'd do the ML, cos the ML will qualify you to lead everywhere a WGL will - and more (but a WGL is limited compared to an ML).

I wouldnt say WGL is easier - the common syallbus between ML and WGL is exactly the same (from memory) and, arguably, nav in WGL terrain can be more challenging - but you could end up doing your ML nav on somewhere like Dartmoor or Trough of Bowland anyway so you need to be up there.

Cost wise...in practice, I'm not sure there is a massive difference between WGL and ML (I have done no research - so am ready to be corrected).

GOF wrote (see)

Cost wise...in practice, I'm not sure there is a massive difference between WGL and ML (I have done no research - so am ready to be corrected).

at PYB, ML costs twice as much as WGL

which,  is not too  hard  to work out as time needed is twice as much for both course and assessment....

and, taking into account that you need to take twice as much time off, spend twice as much on subsistence to attend...

 For the OPs, ML straightaway might well be the best course. 

Thanks Mole...interesting...did you see the cost of the WGL to ML conversion?

that said, PyB is very much a premium price as a rule and other providers do exist

here