 if bedders has asked the well known chain shop if it's the discontinued version - after all it may just be that they haven't updated their web pages which is hardly uncommon nor a crime against most sensible peoples sensibilities - and has received an affirmative response then i shall offer my wholehearted apologies for doubting his word. i shall refrain from further comment until bedders confirms he has written, rather than hypothetical, proof of his claims. ethics anyone? I don't understand what bedouin has to do with the issue? He possed a topic for debate, surely whether or not he is buying it is not relevant to the topic of whether or not shops should make their customers aware of certain things. As for websites not being up-to-date: surely if you want to seel things online you will have an up-to-date website, no? A lot of websites I have come across state what season their models are from and sometimes even sell both new and old models side by side at different prices! I've recently bought a new softshell at a heavily reduced price. I was very pleased with my bargain find and the jacket itself. However, I then found it online for £20 less than I paid. I 'could' in theory take the jacket back, demand a refund, then order it online (different shop) for a cheaper price. Or even, get a refund then demand the original shop do a price match, and buy another one. But I couldn't be arsed with all the hassle. I did the same thing for my softshell. I bought it at half price in my local independent outdoor shop. It was an unplanned purchase, but couldn't miss out on a damn good softshell for £100! I came home just to find out that the new model was coming out a few months later with lighter fabrics and other tweeks. I am still please with my purchase though. I wasn't told that it was discounted to make room for the new model but at that price I can't complain.
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 Or that an item is about to go on sale?
No. But the golden rule then is not to double check the internet a few days later out of curiosity. Sods law says you'll always find its been reduced.
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 Sorry. I didn't mention it was hypothetical? Or is casting aspersions on a well known chain, ripping people off and querying their moral integrity hypothetical?
Oops! Not now because i've mentioneda well known chain. Never mind. It's all hypothetical.
Here's another hypothetical question for you. A well known forum contributor has for the third time made a critical posting concerning manufacturers, suppliers and shops without concerning themselves with any facts but is quite comfortable in continuing to disparage these entities even in the face of hard facts. What would youvreaction be to this poster. Are they full of shite..erm..ripping you off or are they full of shite...erm..questioning your moral rectitude? All hypothetical of course.
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I either didn't pay attention or am loosing it - don't recognise the thread from that description
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I can't find anywhere where he being harsh or critical to any shop or manyfacturer. MHW is the only manufacturer mentioned and nothing bad is said about them. For the benefit of the discussion I think it is find to assume that the question was genuine, and obviously my reaction is that is to respond to this post as I would to any other. I think it would be good if people contributed to conversation and discussion. If you don't like certain people, don't bother replying!
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I am contributing to the discussion
"One major UK outdoor chain is selling what appears to be a Spectre as current that was discontinued in 2007 according to Backcountry.com"
Are they?
Does that statement, hypothetically of course, appear to be slagging off a major uk outdoor chain and suggesting they are deliberately and wilfully misleading people?
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 Legally I don't think there's much of a case as I don't think any retailer has an obligation to tell you it's an end of line product.
Morally I m not sure it depends if you are selling or buying, from a buyers point of view my level of moral outrage is in direct proportion to the amount of discount applied, or if i m really hacked off where I think I've been ripped off ie just bought something new and it's gets discounted further I'll take it back to the shop and politely ask to come to an equitable solution, most retailers are reasonable about this, if I am treated with a modicum of respect, I'll walk away and probably not use that shop again(unless they ve got a really good discount remember most morales are soluble in cash)
However if I'm treated like a tool I will go home, go over the product with a toothcomb and I find even as much as a dropped stitch (as an extreme example) I'll take it back to a different branch if possible and claim a refund as the product is faulty, childish yes, moral no, we say let the buyer beware, but let's face it we are asking more and more from our retailers
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 99.999% of people here have taken the meaning of my root posts at face value i.e. when buying kit would you expect to receive the latest version by default or is it O.K for the retailer to sell an older version placing the onus on the buyer to ensure that they have the latest version of the bought item if thats what they required or where expecting.
I have tried to address the other 0.001 percent of the forum i.e. 1 person but I have abjectly failed as I'm unable to quite understand how expressing a possible concern about an 'UN-NAMED" retailer could be construed as.....
"slagging off a major uk outdoor chain and suggesting they are deliberately and wilfully misleading people?"
I'm more than happy to explain what i mean or debate the finer points, this is a forum after all BUT when it seems people are attacking a person rather than the proposition put forward then moving things forward seems to me to be rather difficult.
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I have tried to address the other 0.001 percent of the forum i.e. 1 person but I have abjectly failed
More than 0.001 percent. Some of us simply ignore your posts. I only replied this time as your arithmetic was wrong. 
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My apologies bedders for thinking that people may use something like google and see for themselves.
What you haven't addressed is are they selling a discontinued model at full price which after all is the whole crux of your thread. Hypothetically of course. Once you brought "major uk outdoor chain" , quite without reason, into it it no longer became hypothetical but suggestive of malpractice.
you can't, no matter what you think, make such accusations just because you haven' t named something specifically and expect others not to make directed assumptions. If you were leaning on a garden fence, which you might be, it would be malcious gossip.
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 I don't see a problem with what Bedouin has said really.
If it was about the shop I work for, I still wouldn't see a problem.
There's not even real a consensus that the shop has done anything wrong, so it can hardly be that harmful.
Besides, all this is doing is distracting us from some interesting discussion.
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I am contributing to the discussion "One major UK outdoor chain is selling what appears to be a Spectre as current that was discontinued in 2007 according to Backcountry.com" Are they? Does that statement, hypothetically of course, appear to be slagging off a major uk outdoor chain and suggesting they are deliberately and wilfully misleading people? Its pointing out at "one major UK outdoor chain" is selling a product that appears to be out an old model according to Backcountry.com. Only one retailer named there and it is not slgging it off, hpothetically or any other way.
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 Or that an item is about to go on sale?
No. But the golden rule then is not to double check the internet a few days later out of curiosity. Sods law says you'll always find its been reduced.
It was worse than that, I was looking for reviews to make sure my impulse buy was worth it.
It was.
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 I have no idea who the mysterious outdoor chain is so I think Bedders has done well to keep that anonymity in this thread. I think he is saying that he found out from backcountry.com that the model sleeping bag was an out of date one, not that backcountry.com was the hypothetical offending outdoor chain.
Even so, its a free country, we have freedom of speech so he could name a hypothetical outdoor chain if he wanted to and there would be no wrong in that either...
I personally don't see anything wrong with what anyone has said on this debate, but I do detect a lot of animosity towards Bedders for some reason.
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Do consumers have a right to know?
Yes they do. If you buy a car you want to know what year and model it is. No difference IMHO.
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O.K thanks all I didn't realise that my original question would cause so much 'debate'. I seem to remember that I asked a similar question a while back about re-pricing old stock as new even mentioning that it was Cotswolds I'd seen doing it yet that barely registered on the forum radar. For the record my view is that yes I'd want to know and yes I'd like a discount but wouldn't automatically assume I'd get one.... in the sense that I'm not obligated to buy. Terra Nova > I do detect a lot of animosity towards Bedders Now wherever did you get that impression
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