Hi all,
I am looking for a winter climbing and walking jacket which could also be worn in the warmer seasons of spring and autumn. I do seam to run quite hot but get cold very easily when i stop exercising.
What are the main differences between the Aspira smock and either of the Velez Adventure or Adventure light smock?
Would the adventure light be enough for full scottish winter conditions or wouldn't it be warm enough?
I have also seen that Furtech do a Claw 2 jacket which looks very similar.
Does anyone have any experiences of any of these jackets or has used a few of them which they could compare?
How does this system compare to the conventional layering system with a Gore tex/eVent hardshell?
Any feedback is appreciated
Tom Howitt
|
| Edited: 31/01/12 01:38 |
 Have you looked at the paramo site?
|
 |
 Basically design (see the Paramo website say), and for the light ones, a lighter outer fabric. So not a genuine warmth difference for VA vs VAL. Aspira might have even more pockets or something for a small difference. Furtec a bit warmer again. Anyway doing something very tough like winter climbing rather suggests using the tougher outer fabric on durability grounds. Actually it'd be very much worth trying to see if you can try them on, which would probably let you inspect for differences. Paramo's cut isn't very agressive at all and real problems likely if you're tall/thin. (If you are and like the system then see Cioch for custom fitted stuff in similar fabrics.). For P****o vs hardshells, see the thousands of threads on here From description, not impossible that you'd plain overheat in it mind. Esp for Spring/Autumn.
|
 |
 I find my Aspira smock great for winter stuff, it's warm, tough, has a great hood and big pockets - the main zipped breast pocket is perfect for hat, gloves, compass etc. Though I suspect the men's smock has a different organisation of pockets? Not so good for the warmer times of year though for me, as another who runs hot. I do also have an Adventure Light but the fabric's not as tough as the Aspira and so I tend not to use it for as rough stuff as I do the Aspira.
|
 |
 Would the adventure light be enough for full scottish winter conditions or wouldn't it be warm enough? The liner in Paramo stuff provides some warmth but that's more a side-effect than a design goal. It's about equivalent to a microfleece IMHO. So as with most other shells used for winter climbing you'll want to supplement them with other mid and/or over-layers. For winter climbing it's best to have a hood that'll go over a helmet comfortably. I'm pretty sure the Aspira's will, not so sure about the light stuff so do check and see. I overheat going up hills in Paramo stuff outside of subzero temperatures unless I'm going particularly slowly (i.e., taking the kids for a dander). Pete.
|
 |
 I started using an Aspira smock for winter back in 2000. It's been used for UK/Scottish walking, backpacking, some climbing/scrambling, and lots of Scandinavian ski touring plus downhill skiing. It's incredibly protective, very practical and has survived pretty much unscathed apart from some rather ingrained dirt mostly around the cuffs. Where it's not good is if/when you get those winter days of blue skies and sunshine and want to take it off - at arounf 1kg and rather bulky it's a bugger to add to your pack load. In 2009 I got the Velez Adventure Smock and it's now in its third winter. I haven't used the Aspira since I got the VAL. To be fair I've not done any climbing scrambling in it and I'd be a little bit concerned about damage to the lighter outer fabric - but then I was concerned I might damage it skiing (abrasion in falls, or contact with ski edges) and it's not suffered at all yet. I find it every bit as protective design-wise. And yes, the hood will take a helmet. I don't miss the interior (map) pocket at all. I do slightly miss the two little nick-nack pockets on the shoulders but I can live without them. Above all I like the fact that the VAL is a packable load if I don't want/need to wear it. I run quite warm and give up on Paramo waterproofs from around May to September. But my partner runs less warm, generally using one layer more than me in the same conditions, and uses her VAL all year round. Abraision damage would be my only concern about the VAL for the winter climbing use you describe. But one solution would be to overlayer a windproof on top of the VAL (e.g. the Paramo Fuera smock is the same tough outer fabric as the Aspira etc) - it would protect the fabric, add further weather protection (it does make a difference), and yet leaveyou with a more versatile combination forvaried conditions and potentially year-round use.
|
 |
 I've tried each of the smocks you've listed. The Aspira is much heavier and bulkier than the others. I sold it and the Velez and kept the adventure light, though its fabric is definitely less resilient. If I wear a paramo top it tends to be the Aspira jacket, which is my favourite out of them all. Not as heavy or bulky as the smock, but some good pockets, tough, and a jacket which is better for me. I wouldn't want to carry any paramo jacket in my pack, so only wear when it's cold.
|
 |
I've used the VAL for winter walking and scrambling -- but not climbing -- and found it gives great protection in harsh weather. Most of the time I find it fine over just a thin Helly Hansen Lifa base layer, maybe with a microfleece vest added if it's very cold. Too hot from mid spring through to autumn tho.
|
 |
 Another user converted from Aspira to VAL for winter - point for point the same as Matt C! For me, Paramo is a sub-zero only garment, as I find it far too warm for anything else (and I have never worn anything other than a baselayer underneath). Only abrasion problem occurred when coming off a bike (when I discovered that studded tyres don't work on really hard packed ice), which wrote the smock off - but I don't think that the Aspira would have fared any differently.
|
 |
 the aspira smock is sized larger to accomodate more underlayers and stretching (see threads re does paramo need to be baggy to work effectively) - it's certainly much larger (wider) than my velez. it's a much more robust looking and feeling top and is a proper full on serious mountain top whereas the others you mention are multi-activity tops.
|
 |
 I'm another one who has used the Adventure Light in place of an old Aspira. It provides as much protection, I prefer the central pocket being waterproof (not sure why the Aspira's is not lined?) and is lighter. It's not as robust as Matt and others have said so it may not last as well as the Aspira.
|
 |
 I was puzzled by your statement about the sizing, Parky, never having noticed much difference, so I checked my "collection". It's tricky to measure exactly but I went for just under the armpits, using the chest pocket flap as a guide, and came up with: Aspira Smock, Large (bought 2000) - 25" Velez Smock, Large (2006) - 24" Velez Adventure Light, Large (2009) - 24" Alta 2 Jacket, Medium (2011) - 23" (The Alta's primarily a 'town' coat (bargain from Paramo Seconds) that I don't expect to layer much underneath). Being significantly older, and of the vintage before they lightened the pump liner, it might be possible that Aspira sizing has changed a little - I don't know. BTW, to clarify, it's the Velez Adventure Light I was talking about in my post above. I don't have a Velez Adventure. I do have a Velez but it's not so good for winter on account of the less protective hood (which doesn't take a helmet). Finally, I know Paramo put the Aspira in their "High Mountain" category, and the others in "Hill & Hike / Multi Activity", but they don't actually explain or define the categories anywhere, so ultimately what are they except an indicator and a marketing label for organising their catalogue?
|
 |
 When i last tried an aspira smock it seemed huge - i suppose another 2" on somthing that is already generous seems a lot. But then again a 2" difference is often a size larger. I agree that paramo have tended of late to really blur the boundaries i think because of customer pressure and expectation. The aspira smock does look and feel like serious long term rough stuff kit though.
|
 |
 "The aspira smock does look and feel like serious long term rough stuff kit though." I agree absolutely - it is. Years and years of rough use  As ever though, there's a trade-off of factors - protection, weight/bulk, durability. It's good that several posters have confirmed that the VAL offers the protection, so you can choose which of the others matters most to you.
|
 |
 Would a VAL be a winter climber's choice?
I know that paramo stuff is a lot tougher than it looks but would a VAL be up to that?
Just curious.
|
 |
 My own view is that the outer fabric would suffer at some point from being scraped against rock, more so than the standard fabric on the Aspira or other Velez models, so it depends how quickly you're prepared to see your jacket suffer. Of course, the nature of Paramo means it could well still be protective with some rips sewn up in the outer. If winter climbing was my sole use of the jacket I wouldn't choose a VAL. But if I wanted something more versatile I probably would, and I'd protect it with a light windproof over the top on the occasions when I thought I might damage it climbing.
|
 |
 Ah. That makes sense. Thanks matt.
|
 |
 Did that come out right......
|
 |
|
|
 |