I note that Cotswold have the Rab Alpine reduced to £45.00. I have the previous version, a pull on so at the quoted price have now ordered the jacket version with the full length zip.
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Well this thread reveals that windshirts are really quite a subjective thing, since I would say just about everything opposite to TP (above).
Totally agree with you on that statement but I have a completely opposite view on pretty much everything else you said. Neither of us are right or wrong though as it is all just opinion. I have an old, old, old dynamo (wearing it now) it was in Montane's own fabric possibly called PEAQ or something. It was sold as 98% windproof but lot less than that in strong winds. I later got the newer dynamo/dyno/whatever it was called which was similar but they changed to pertex equilibrium (also sold as 98% windproof to aid breathability when working hard) with a shinier and more weather resistant almost hard face to it and rubberised velcro wrist adjustment. That is still used on walks (the older version is bout town and work). Since then I think there were dyno and then dynamo back again but had developed hoods and changed in other ways I think too. Anyway, I would call these soft shells not windshirts as they are not completely windproof or even close. Bear in mind that pertex now seems to state the cfm flow rate of the wind that their fabrics resist. I think that is because they no long state windproof!! The equilibrium form of pertex is not really close to what is traditionally thought of as pertex. It is a denier gradient fabric which AFAIK means it has a dense side to resist wind and a slightly less dense side to wick and insulate to some degree (this side can be made more insulative or less). The traditional pertex is a single, tightly woven fabric with only wind resistant properties imparted to it. Hence the higher cfm rate it can resist.
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BTW if I am wearing my litespeed hood up then it is really bad wind. Chances are I'm wearing some other hat underneath too like a peaked cap. IIRC Montane even once tried to Americanise us with that idea of a more simple hood on one of their waterproofs supplied with a waterproof, peaked cap which was intended to be worn with it. The hood IIRC had velcro to fix it to the cap but the cap was kind of meant to be wearable without the waterproof too. As a glasses wearer I find caps are vry useful and generally wear one when walking (only walking in the fells though). This makes the simple hood more useful IMHO. The "better" peaked hood of the fuera gets in the way and since it is not a well designed hood for cinching in flaps rather too much for my comfort in wind. Hence my earlier vitriol against it. It seems to want to be a helmet compatible hood but doesn't have the means to reduce the volume of the excess fabric when no helmet is worn. Bad design In my book.
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I would agree thatr the the Equilibrium version of Pertex is wind resist rather than 100% windproof like the other versions, However I find it that bit more breathable than say microlight and therefore creates less occasions when I feel "clammy" wearing it in comparison with other versions of Pertex. Also other than in real strong, gale force plus winds it cuts out the vast majority of the wind chill. It is therefore my favourite version of Pertex.
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I find my pertex equilibrium fleece doesn't cut out that much. In fact any stiff breeze will get through. it's a Montane Dynamo I think, hoodless too. I think there are a few different weights of it unlike the normal pertex for example microlight which practically is a single type of fabric.
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I think you're right, they can weave Equilibrium in different ways to get different trade-offs between breathability and windproofing. I have a Dynamo too, and I don't find it at all windproof enough for hill use. You can blow through the fabric quite easily. OTOH I've just bought a Rab Alpine pull-on, and haven't had it on the hills yet but to a kiss test it's much more like microlight.
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| Edited: 03/02/12 02:54 |
 Yes - its mentioned in Jons reviews this. There's a lighter weight, more windproof, version of Eq that they used in the alpine pull on, VR lite etc. CFM is I'm pretty sure air flow through the fabric at a given pressure, not an upper limit. The only way to get total windproofing is membranes and stuff, but obviously its not actually really very desirable. Besides from trawling BPL, the only stats I can see on pertex's wind resistance (or otherwise) are on Montanes site. That has microlight/quantum etc as Air permeability 1.0cc max (JIS L 1096 / ASTM D737) and the Dyno - standard equilibrium - at 8. (its abrasion resistance that Quantum seems to lose, and in fact rather a lot of it.). But what that actually means in practice? Goodness knows. It is however something you might reasonably wish people would measure on a standard scale and publish because its really pretty important in terms of what these things are best at! (someone on BPL does do it for some things, which is nice.).
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The site for pertex used to have pretty good tech specs on the wind resistance when I last looked. It was a while ago so perhaps not on it anymore. Sure it was cfm. They used to give mph windspeed once I think for some windshirts. Long, long time ago that was.
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CFM is I'm pretty sure air flow through the fabric at a given pressure, not an upper limit. The only way to get total windproofing is membranes and stuff, but obviously its not actually really very desirable. Besides from trawling BPL, the only stats I can see on pertex's wind resistance (or otherwise) are on Montanes site. That has microlight/quantum etc as Air permeability 1.0cc max (JIS L 1096 / ASTM D737) and the Dyno - standard equilibrium - at 8. (its abrasion resistance that Quantum seems to lose, and in fact rather a lot of it.). But what that actually means in practice? Goodness knows. It is however something you might reasonably wish people would measure on a standard scale and publish because its really pretty important in terms of what these things are best at! (someone on BPL does do it for some things, which is nice.).
You are spot on that air permeability is measured in terms of flow through a fabric at a given pressure. I'd guess what Montane mean by cc is infact cm^3 s^-1 cm^-2 at a pressure of 125 Pa or in words cubic cm of air per square cm of fabric per second at a pressure of 125 pascals. As you can see here a pressure of 125Pa is equivalent to a wind speed of around 14m/s (around 30mph if you think in imperial units). Anyway a rule of thumb is that fabrics with an air permeability of 0 to 2 cc may be classified as windproof. If you like a fabric with a quoted air permeability of 1cc will cut a 14m/s wind down to 1cm/s inside.
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I find my pertex equilibrium fleece doesn't cut out that much. In fact any stiff breeze will get through. it's a Montane Dynamo I think, hoodless too. I think there are a few different weights of it unlike the normal pertex for example microlight which practically is a single type of fabric.
I have a hooded version of the Dyno with Pertex equilibrium, and I'd agree it isn't windproof.
However it is pretty good over a thin fleece, and the hood does seem pretty wind resistant.
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| Edited: 03/02/12 20:10 |
 Fuera - for cooler days. Fits me fine, very hard wearing, excellent pocket.
Litespeed - for warmer days. A brilliant bit of work. So comfortable, good pocket, decent hood.
Each for a different set of conditions. Each has much merit.
I also have a Haglofs Kaza. It doesn't have a hood (or two zs).
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| Edited: 03/02/12 21:22 |
Thanks for the technical bits, useful  Anyone got any idea what Mbar/l/m²/s would mean in relation to anything? At first sight the combination of units looks plain odd. Its what Norrona use for their windshirts. 100 seems to be pretty air permeable in practice.
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 Paramo Fuera Ascent (looks more fitted and lighter than the regular Fuera)? I have a Patagonia Ready Mix (bought on sale a couple of years ago). That's a nice windshirt. It's the softshell type (stretch woven) so not as light or packable as a Montane Litespeed/ Rab Cirrus type but at the very light weight end for a softshell. Good for wearing all day (as opposed to pulling out when necessary). I think the current version is The Ascensionist.
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