On the face of it this looks like a great thing - sustainable transport etc, blah, blah, local economy, but there are, apparently two major issues:
1. What about people (locals) who just want to roll up, go bouldering or running for a couple of hours then pack up and go home. Will any sort of park and ride work for them and, if not, will parking spaces still be retained?
2. What sort of businesses are likely to develop as a result of this? Are we looking at an economically useful but culturally dead Snowdonian Disneyworld with added mountains?
Surelt all it would do is reduce congestion from Pen-y-Pass, and put it somewhere else. Now if that other place is suitably placed to deal with added traffic, and has a big massive car park, then as long as the buses are big enough for everybody waiting, and regular enough so people don't wait around for too long, and they get to p-y-p quick enough, then it could be good. It would be terrible for the cafe which is there, but they'll still get people who come off Snowdon coming in, so I reckon that with due consideration, it could work.
I don't know enough about the specifics, will try to find out and get back. Apparently the locals are worried about an influx of MickyD-type outlets and their own access to the crags. Where do you put all the cars which park along the A5 under Tryfan for example?
Well there's gonna have to be a massive car park (I know it's gonna take up loads of space etc, but if they're gonna go ahead with it, then it's the only thing they can do. And how many drop off/pick up points are there gonna be?
I haven't had the time to read the full report or post a reply yet, but I must say it's a shame that so many people can post so much stuff elsewhere, but no-one but Andrew has bothered to discuss something pretty damn important.
Sorry Dan, that's my fault - one of the hyperlinks in the original article was supposed to go there, but was actually a duplicate of the previous URL. Should be fixed now.
I have just spent som etime reading the document, which like all such proposal papers is not exactly interesting stuff.
However it does raise some interesting and important issues:
1. Tourism is the most important industry to Snowdon, however the tourists who go there spend relatively little. This is a valid point. We as mountain users often spend little because we day trip. I am guilty of this as the rest. I jet in in my car...park up walk and then drive home with possibly a cuppa before I start and maybe a quick beer before I go. But would such a scheme make me spend longer in the area and would it make me spend more in the shops of the gateway towns? Not necessarilly, because you can't force people to spend money anywhere they don't want.
2. The anticipated rise in the number of vehicles expected in the area is very scary. If this is not managed then it will detriment everyone who goes there.
3. If people are "forced", or perhaps coerced is a better word, to use the gateway towns and bus stops, what will happen to the facilities along the road side, such as the great "Snowdonia Cafe" just outside Capel? Will these remain econimically viable, or will they be sacrificed for the sake of increased tourist facilities at the hub points?
4. Presumably the car users will be coerced onto public transport by "punative" car parking charges inside the Snowdon area (e.g high cost pay and display along the A5 by Tryfan). Presumably the owner of the pay and display machines will be the local councils...can anyone tell me how these charges will benefit (sorry maximise economic opportunities) the local businesses anywhere?
5. If the scheme is unsuccessful and not cost-effective and so buses cut to a bare minimum the bus services will be cut to the bare minimum. So in the future there exists the possibility that people will not be able to gain access to the hills. For example there may be people who cannot afford the charges, and will not be able to park in the direct area. They will have to take the bus, of which there may be very few. There will then develop a two-tiered culture of hill users. Those with transport and those without. (I accept that this already exists today but far worse...) Such a future will drive people away from the area to other mountain areas thus making the economics of the area worse.
6. What about safety? Will people be rushing about the hills so they can get the last bus? What if people become "misplaced" on the hills (as can happen to anyone!) and they do miss the last bus? Will they be forced to spend the night without say cash for accomodation or indeed any accomodation?
7. It seems that the "tourists" being talked about here are not exactly the same as the "mountain users"...
Personally, I like the IDEA, but as ever the devil is in the details. There has to be a balance between environmental protection of a well loved area, and the free will of the mountain users and tourists. Each time I go there I am shocked that I can park by the A5 for free...compare that to the Dales, but the car parking charges have to be fair!
Not said anything, as it seems a complex issue, and I didn't feel I knew enough. However now I've seen more of others' comments on the issue:
I don't think all areas of Snowdonia are the same, or should be treated as such. Whilst there obviously is a problem in the Llanberis Pass - perticularly at Pen-y-Pass, the same can't really be said for the Ogwen valley. I've never had a problem parking near the foot of Tryfan, or Idwal Cottage (though I may not go in peak times). Can't they apply their "solution" to where there's a problem rather than adopting a broad brush approach?
Tourists / mountain walkers - interesting distinction here. Presumably the former are those who clog the place up in summer (but spend lots of money), whilst the latter don't spend much, but come all year and keep Snowdonia ticking over in winter. I suspect the average tourist in Snowdonia ventures further from their car than in the Lake District (even if only up the railway), but I could be wrong. Unfortunately the casual tourist is more likely to be put off by these proposals (as they "need" to drive everywhere).
Hmm, I don't quite know what my point is, but I do tend to agree with a lot of what Alex said.
Personally I try to avoid the peak times anyway so a £3 per day parking I think I could cope with..... especially if it were pumped back into the economy.
I've only read the .PDF file, has it been stated what sort of timetables the busses will be running to as there wasn't anything in there (....or maybe there was & I just missed it).
Also.... what are the Hi-Mid-Low seasons going to be?
Today's the last day for comment, please give your four pence worth.
to: gwenllianowens@gwynedd.gov.uk
Here's mine:
Dear Sir/Madam or more likely 'Committee'
Having just noticed today is the last day for comments on the 'Green Key' proposals. I would like the following to be taken in to consideration:
1) In the winter I frequently can start walks at 6:30 am 2) In the summer I frequently can finish walks at 10:30 pm Will there be public transport available at those times?
3) If I finish my walk after the last bus, is it ok to call out the mountain rescue team to take me to one of the 'gateway towns' where I've been forced to park my car?
4) It rains (occasionally) in Snowdonia. Now especially in winter I carry a heavy pack, consequently dry clothes are kept in the car. Will the public transport keep my change of clothing on board and wait until I've changed?
I do use public transport within Snowdonia (poor that it is). I think a far better and acceptable approach would be to improve the service within the region rather than impose a solution which seems to benefit the few and leave out on a limb many locals and visitors alike.
