 Sounds good for Karrimor (though maybe not the Black liscensing!)
I think a big problem is not getting involved in Mag reviews e.g. Trail.
I've got a Ridge 40-45 rucsak and it should be top of the list, buts its never in any reviews.
Lets not see Karrimor go the way of Rover................
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 Does that mean that what used to be Peter Storm will now be referred to as Karrimor?
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the licence only changes the way that Blacks buy the gear, karrimor still does all the design and the gear is still made in their factories. just different commercial way of trading. v common in the sports and other inducstries, only just reaching the outdoor industry.
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"the new owners of Karrimor have also struck a deal allowing Blacks to use the brand name for their own products".
Surely the above statement means that a 'Blacks' branded tent (for eg) can now be re-badged as Karrimor?
Theres no implying that Karrimor would be designing or manufacturing the product.
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THat, Glyn M, is a very good point. I suppose whether it has Karrimor or Blacks name on it won't change the fact that if its good, its good, and vice versa.
You still have to use your nouce when buying, not just buy something cos its karrimor.
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 It's not karrimor, it's "Lonsdale Sports Ltd, trading as Karrimor".
The quality has dived, look carefully before you buy.
Also, the Blacks karrimor branded stuff is horrendous, especially the clothing, the dissolving rucksacks etc
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 Out of curiosity, where is Karrimor stuf made now- I'm guessing that its far eastern but since the last time I bought something from Karrimor, Thatcher was still PM, I can't say i'm too clued up on them. Still very nostalgic about my old pack though.
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The article is wrong, it is NOT TRUE that blacks will be producing karrimor products as their own brand, the reporter was clearly not listening at the show. If Blacks wish to produce an item with a Karrimor badge on it they must produce samples of the product and have these approved by the Karrimor design team, who can say NO at any point. This means that Blacks will not be able to produce anything that Karrimor would not be proud to make themselves. (though in the short term you may see some stuff that was approved before the present team was in place, but this will be gone by the autumn.)
if you want to guarentee you are buying Karrimor designed product go to a good independant retailer.
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 MB, Karrimor stuff has been made in the Far East & other countries for many years, startign in the late eighties. All production was off-shore by around '97. This was the only way it could remain competitive. These days its the design, materials, quality control & specification that matters more than the location of manufacture. Nowt wrong with the rucksacks they've been making in China for the past few decades!
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Cheers Mal- I guessed as much
I suppose there's no reason at all why far eastern stuff should be any poorer than elsewhere after all- I'm thinking of cars and guitars- pretty good although luxury brands have tended to stay stateside or in europe
I suppose the problm comes when having cut costs by outsourcing the design cost get cut. I can think of several manufacturers who quality went down a lot when they went far east- and poor manufacturing was not necessarily an issue.
Anyway I suppose not every company will wish to go the Arc'teryx route and keep everything at home
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That's the realistic approach MB, all outdoor manufacturers have the figures to show that return rates are reduced once far eastern manufacture is established.
And really, how can anyone say that a seamstress in China is not going to be as good at her job as one in the UK??
As Mal says, it is QC which is important and the factories are proud to produce kit which is as good as possible. It gets them repeat business and new business.
Stuff manufactured locally as you say is only the most expensive 'hand crafted by a master' type stuff, but to draw on your cars analogy both Lotus and Aston Martin are well known for shonky build quality, and Rover have gone down the tube.....
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 There are also ethical reasons for investigating manufacturing location.
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Although is avoiding products that are manufactured abroad ethical? Although conditions in factories abroad are often far from acceptable, at least the companies are putting money into the economy and providing jobs.
Best thing would obviously be to buy from manufacturers who have some kind of acceptable codoe of practice, minimum wage etc. in their factories. Which of course we never know, we only know if it is made in China or Vietnam etc.
I don't think avoiding foreign made products is an ethical solution. I think encouraging manufacturers to be more open about their manufacturing conditions, and encouraging them to improve them is a better route. 'Made in China' needn't mean 'Made in sweatshop'.
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 Kat - you can find out some information about his type of thing. Try ethical consumer. In one of their back-issues there is a feature on outdoor gear.
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http://www.sba-inc.co.jp/karrimor/index.html
This is the new karrimor Japan website with all the new rucksacks.
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please lets get a few things clear
1)Karrimor is owned by Lonsdale, but it's DNA is still Karrimor. In the same way that Berghau is Pentland/Speedo/Lacoste/Ellesse, or Mountain Hardwear is Colombia, or in the UK Mountain Equipment is Ron Hill, or North Face is Jansport/Eastpac. Todays commercial world leeds companies to own and manage several brands. They are all distict and targeted at different markets, they will not blur or merge, or why else buy so extra brands.
2) RP is tottaly correct, all product is designed/approved by Karrimor, the Blacks licence is merely a way for them to buy in the volumes they need to effieciently.
3) No matter what brand there are always great products and occassionaly a few dogs, use your common sense.
4) If you have ever been to a factory that produces outdoor gear for any major brand you will be aware that the peoples perceptions of them are way out. Imagine M4 corridor or science park type business parks in the UK, only 20 times bigger. China is years ahead of us from a technological and industrial point. If you want ethological reasons, how about you allow them to trade with Europe without pre-judging with out-dated pre-conseptions.
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 Tony. Why do I get the feeling you may be somehow part of Karrimor/Lonsdale.???
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V good points. Lets see the Karrimor brand get back to that legendary status. I believe this could easily be achieved if their kit was reviewed in mags. Let it compete against Berghaus and Macpac.
People nowadays love reviews of kit (hence this site). Even if we know it is good kit, its nice if someone else thinks so too!
As I stated at the start of the thread, I've got a Ridge 40-45 and its great. Winter walking and even a bit of summer backpacking.
The new Ridge looks great on the Japanese website - the 2nd compression strap added is the only thing I think mine really needed - so now it must be perfect.
Long Live Karrimor!
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 If we want reviews the maybe Jon could see if he can get a load of the kit and dish it out to members for "field testing".
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