 Jon or anyone,
Do you know if there is one in the range suitable (or near abouts)for caving? I use a Black Diamond Moonlight pro for it and the only problem is its a little dim. I know its not really fo that purpose but its done me proud for some time (including some nasty mud sumps).
I'm hoping someone will tell me there's a water resitant(ish)head torch with super bright LEDs with a head mounted battery (with an over-the-top-of-the-head strap)in the silva or other range with a decent burn time. Or am I dreaming?
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 Maxwell,
I am an avid caver and over the years I have progressed through the various ranges of mining lamps from oldham to Oldham conversions using ex military wet nicad cells.
I have been one of the last in my caving club to convert over to the Speliotronics FX iron head mounted LED/halogen combination. It is basically the same mining lamp headshell, but with a 14 led reflector for "close" work and a conventional halogen spot for "distance."
It has a box which mounts on the rear of the helmet, freeing the caver from trailing cables to get "snagged" in tight places !
The problem as I see it with the sorts of lamps in your header is that they are really not up to the rigors of "serious" caving, which is reflected in the price. I paid £140 plus for my FX iron!
Reliability is also an issue. Underground is one place you cannot rely on a "cheaper" type of lamp.
Having aaid that, I have an emergency light strapped to the side of my helmet which is a 28 led small torch I got for £2 off Ebay, and it is ideal as a secondary emergency lamp. It runs off three AAA bateries and gives quite an impressive light output.
I have to say that caving on LEDs gives a pleasant spread of light which seems a much more "natural" light source. The only drawback is that in large passages, you do need the spot beam of the halogen lamp to see any distance!
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 The L1 looks a good bet for caving; 3W LED, claimed 170 hours. The BD Moonlight uses 'conventional' 5mm white light LEDs that won't get anywhere near this output; more akin to the L3 in the Silva range.
Luxeon LEDs are a significantly different beast to what you have on your BD. You could search for Luxeon in past threads to find discussion of this LED technology.
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> Reliability is also an issue. Underground is one place you cannot rely on a "cheaper" type of lamp
Wise words indeed. It's a bit dark down there, I guess...
Reliability is a potential enormous benefit of LEDs over incandescent lamps; their lifetimes are measured in 10s of thousands of hours. It's the stuff around the LED you'd have to worry about; battery contacts, wiring, being able to take physical abuse, etc.
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 I'm in pretty much the same position as Tony, having been caving for over 30 years. Also like Tony I was very reluctant to use anything but the Oldham. The Oldham was designed specifically for use as a miners caplamp. Eventually though I did switch to the FX, and it's almost as good :)
In caving there are 3 main essentials: battery life, build quality for use in caves (lots of banging, immersion in mud, grit and mud etc), and reliability. The Fx is the first realistic alternative to the Olham, and has taken years of development to finally meet all these requirements.
Ordinary helmet mounted led lights are, frankly, of little use other than an emergency light to stick in your ammo box. They're just not up to the job of resisting the ingress of grit, mud and water - never mind the constant baging. There's a big diference between "waterproof" and suitable for total immersion in the odd duck or waterfall! Liquid mud also has an amazing knack of getting inside anything.
Above all else you have to remember that without light underground you're knackered - so only ever use something tried and tested and developed specifically for caving/mining as your life depends on it- as do the rescue teams who have to come out and help you if it fails.
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Tony, the "natural" light's good - but you can't beat a stinky :)
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Ah yes Dave, but we can't use them in most Welsh Caves !!!
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Another thing to remember too is the increased technology of the batteries used today.
The "iron" battery on my FX caplamp is a far cry from my original lead acid Oldham which needed a lot of maintainance to keep it in tip top condition.
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 Batteries? how about back in the day when there was the carbide Acetalyne type lamps!
And yes it is surprising where liqiud mud can get! ;)
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That is what Dave was referring to, "stinkies" - not allowed im Welsh Caves due to the pollution problems!
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I've still got a brand new "Premiere" in its box :) I know you can still get carbide as well, though it's mainly for expeditions or trips like the Gouffre Berger or PSM. The yanks still use it a lot too.
They're not encouraged in Derbyshire either Tony. But they were fun with unsuspecting scouts (Don't pee over there little boy, do it over there on that little pile of grey stones ;-)........hehe they were good days)
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Shameless plug, I know, but check out the Primus PrimeLite Adventure Remote headtorch which was launched a few months ago. It is a waterproof LED model with a velcro-secured, wrist mounted remote control device that enables you to change between the various light settings without having to reach up to your head and find the button all the time. These are red LED (for night vision), 25% white LED output for close up work, 50% output for general vicinty, and "full beam" mega-powerfull white Luxeon LED that has a 50mt+ range. The headcradle is an over-the-head strap type and the battery box can be taken off and worn under clothing with the supplied lanyard to keep batteries lasting longer in cold weather. AA batteries are included and it costs £69.95. Check out more at www.primus.se
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Cheers guys,
I only go caving about once a month so I'm not a dead serious caver so might baulk at such expensive lights- but point taken - its hard to get out of even the simplst cave without light.
Yes I am also an LED fan and halogen lights just don't seem to have an even enough spread for me- really this is why I started the thread to get people's opinion on the new super-bright LED's as they seem to have the best of both worlds.
Oh and I hate/detest/abhor etc waist mounted bateries (I'm fat enough already without needing something esle to get in the way).
Actually I'm not fat...I'm just festively plump
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 Princeton Tec do a waterproof head torch (the vortec) that is designed for diving, so might be of some use I think its this one...... Here
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