i was on Great Gable for the remembrance service on sunday 12 november & noticed in the crowd a few groups with those mini bothy/storm shelters in various colours,terra nova & outdoor desighs among others make them. have you got one,are they warm inside would you recommend buying one?
I've got a Vango one person bothy bag (yes, I walk solo). Whilst it's a bit claustrophobic inside it does have a small 'window' for peeping out of. It warms up inside quite quickly. I don't hesitate to use it in icy conditions when it's windy. You actually get quite a comfortable stop, instead of near freezing to death, while you eat your sarnies. Great if it's raining as well. A survival bag will do the same job in an emergency but this is more versatile.
I have a 2 man one I think it is, can't remember make. But they are very versitile bits of kit. I'll point you to Bob's site bothy page, as I think Bob describes some of it's other uses well, and also if you look at his gallery pics for ideas.
I have a vango storm shelter and I would defiantly recommended one. They are great for having lunch in when the weather is bad and no shelter nearby. I like the vango one as it has a window in which I think is a great feature.
I have a 4-person Terra Nova one which I use whether solo or with up to 4 - something a bit oversize for the numbers involved is actually easier to use, especially if you've all got sizeable packs with you.
I first used one about 10 years ago om a ski-trip to Iceland. We needed a break while skiing in a true blizzard so the 6 of us got inside a group shelter - in less than a couple of minutes the atmosphere was toasty enough for a decent break and morale boost plus things like removing boots to deal with blisters and so on. I was amazed how effective it was and as soon as I got home I went out and bought one. I've used them a few times since, usually for lunch stops, in locations varying from the Cairngorms to Norway.
They're generally just made of proofed ripstop nylon or something similar. My TN Bothy4 weighs only 420g (a friend had the Bothy2 and iirc that weighed 380g, so I reckon the 4 is the better bet).
Windows are nice (my TN one doesn't have any, it has a couple of mesh vents but they're tricky to see out of).
I think some have drawstrings around the base - which might be useful to scrunch down an oversize one, but not essential.
The TN ones pack up into one of their vents which means there's no stuffsac to lose. If you have one with a stuffsac make sure it's captive - sewn on to the shelter or something - it'll inevitably be blowing a hoolie when you're using it and be very easy to lose the stuffsac in the wind. Make the stuffsac oversize too - you don't want to be battling with metres of nylon in a gale trying to stuff it all back into a tiny stuffsac!!
I have a four person Vango shelter, and it's too big. It takes up a third of my day pack's volume. I'd rather have a two-person shelter, but the one I have came with a Trail subscription...
I've got a 4-person Karrimor Instructors Survival Unit (KISU) in a very "in your face" bright blue.
I can only say that they are superb when it's cold/windy. We'll often use it in the winter and it's amazing the difference it makes. You can sit down, covered in snow and ice and within minutes, it's all melted off you.
The one thing to watch is not getting one which is too big for your normal group size. 2 folk in a 4-man shelter is just too much loose nylon!!
I've got the 2 person Terra Nova bothy bag - it's a great piece of kit. Gives you quick superb shelter from dreadful weather, and you get warm inside quickly. Good for drinking soup, fiddling with kit, or just taking a break from wild weather. If the worst happened and you or your partner were injured in bad weather, such a shelter gives you both a way of getting out of the weather fast and attending to the injury - something you can't do so easily with a survival bag. There's a hilleberg variant thats a cross between a bothy bag, poncho and survival bag that looks fun, but the nice thing about the bothy bags is that you share them. You'll need to know where your headtorch is tho.
A Terra Nova 2-person bothy for us.I was surprised to find it was a bit lighter than our old Karrimor orange plastic bag. Probably be uncomfortable to sit up in the shelter for several hours though,if it became necessary.May not be able to find suitable back support.Think I'd have to curl up on a sit mat.
Bob - that is an interesting issue, and I'm not sure what the answer is. Is a bothy bag more use than a survival bag to actually survive in? In a survival bag you can be completely enclosed - more difficult in a bothy bag where you will lose heat to the ground. And you can lie down in a survival bag. On the other hand, it may be better sitting on your pack (and sit mat if you have one) in a bothy bag, though you will be in the wind more. I've spent the night out in a bivi-bag in winter at the snowline in Scotland, and been warm. Not sure I could have done that as easily in a bothy bag. Have you seen the Hilleberg Bivanorak? A lightweight bothy bag type shelter that you could use as a poncho .. ( or even a tarp ).. might be handy too ..
Yes ALove, I realise that I was perhaps going to get this idea talked about, and of course I can only base my comments on my own experiences, which without wanting to spend too long typing, goes as follows;
I've carried a orange plastic bivibag in my pack for years and I've never used it. Okay so far so good, however in these days of lightweight enlightenment, that is almost 6-800gms on every trip all year round.
I have played with how I might use it, taken it out, cut a breathing hole in the end, got in it and yes even slept in it, for one very wet, damp, unpleasant night in Wales. It was a bugger to get back into a small enough shape to pack though.
My walking generally has been winter, spring and autumn primarily in the Brecons, Lakes and Scotland. And on all these trips, I have stopped had a brew, tried to find somewhere to get out of the wind, eaten my munchies, camped and done what we all do I guess. And still the plastic bag stayed all folded up in the bag.
The two times I nearly got hypothermia, was in Scotland in May, I was soaked, cold and hadn't stopped to eat or drink due to the said weather and lack of shelter. And it still stayed in my pack, as all I could think of was the hassle to get it out and use it as I would have been stuck in the prone position, which would have made drying myself off, putting my boots back on and/or eating food more of a pain.
Now. The bothy bag.
As a lot of people know I've started carrying this ever since this years TGO, where I was very dubious initially about its benefits. It was lighter than the plastic bag (400gms I think) and as there was two of us I justified it, so that we could both fit in it should we need to.
And I have to say, we used it virtually at every stop, to either sit on, sit in, sit under, shelter from the wind or sunshine and then as a tent footprint. We also used it to cover our bags or to wrap the two bags in, and protect them from mucky weather when we left them outside the pub.
Finally to survive in. Lets face it, as and when those situations arrive, it is going to be a pretty unpleasant night. I'm 6'2" and I found I could lie down in it and wrap it around me, which would do the same job as the pastic variety. Neither of the materials has any conduction insulation properties, meerly windchill and water resistance. In an injury situation I could also pull my rucksack in with me, or prop it up slightly with walking poles thus giving shelter and space.
But more importantly when accidents happen, lying flat on the ground isn't always easy or desirable. And podcast listeners will remember that the bothy bag was the first thing out of my pack when Peewiglet fell off the rockface in May. The plastic bag would have been useless in the same circumstances.
So, tired as my fingers now are, that is the reason I now carry one instead of the useless plastic bag. I'm not doubting the survival benefits of either item, but I am using my lightweight 'enlightenment' to say, that 'yes I need emergency gear, but really it needs to have more than one use'!
And for me the bothy bag does much more than I ever thought it would. After all the initial doubting and concerns, it has really earned its space in my pack year round!
Bob, you have the Outdoor Designs small standard shelter I think? This must be bigger than the Terra Nova Bothy 2, which I have. I can't lie down inside the Bothy 2 or use it as groundsheet. Maybe I should get an OD one.
In general I agree that bothy bags are far better than plastic survival bags. I slept - or rather tried to sleep - in one of the latter many years ago on a damp night - never again! I've also seen them fall apart when finally unfolded after years in the bottom of a rucksack. I first used bothy bags when leading ski tours in Scandinavia. Having a big 10 person was great in blizzards as we could all get inside. Now I carry the Bothy 2 on all walks between October and May, though I've rarely used it. I've never taken it on the Challenge though as it only appears to have one use and I could always wrap myself, or someone else, in my tent if necessary. However I can see the point of using one as a groundsheet with a tarp or tent flysheet. Maybe for next year's Challenge .....
Chris, a couple of years ago I replaced my circa 1987 orange survival bag, fearing that it might fall to bits if I ever needed it, just like you've seen. That was before I bought a bothy bag. In my case my fears were unfounded as I've been using the cut down old bag as a wheel bag for the muddy front wheel on mountain bike trips and it's still perfectly ok. Perhaps they deteriorate if kept wet in the bottom of a pack.
I also meant to say that I've seen a few people talk about lying down in a plastic survival bag in an emergency situation. I'd have thought it unlikely that a day walker would be carrying a sleeping mat to make this practical. Lying down on the ground would cause much heat to be lost by conduction to the ground. It would be much better to sit up on a sit mat or improvised insulation. The feet and legs can be placed inside the pack for extra warmth. I've never been forced into an unexpected bivvy but one thing's for certain it would probably be a very cold and miserable experience.
