I noticed simon's recent thread regarding sleeping bags and wanted to post my own question without hi-jacking his.

I'm in the market for a new sleeping bag and have narrowed it down to the rab quantum 400 endurance and the ME glacier 300 (not sure I can wait 'til october for the pipedream 400). I'm after a lightweight down bag for use in this country (mainly snowdonia) as year-round as possible (hence the DWR outer). The rab is rated down to -5 but is far more expensive than the ME, which is only rated down to -2.

Question - will I really notice the difference in cooler weather with the ME bag, or do I fork out nearly £100 more for the rab? I use an exped downmat and generally sleep warm. I don't realistically expect to be camping in very cold conditions but it would be nice to take full advantage of milder autumn/winter days. Any advice appreciated.

Have you had a look at the Minim 400 in the PhD sale.

I bought one in the last sale and am very happy with it.

The outdoor shop www.theoutdoorshop.com have the Rab Q 400 Endurance for £170. I have the 250 and find it very warm. The Endurance outer is very good at repelling moisture. Remember if the bag is too hot you can end up with a damp bag due to sweat! Just trying to confuse you even more! If you're cold you can put on more clothes. I personally don't like to be hot in my bag. Even at home in winter i sleep with no heating and usually a window open. In the end you'll just have to go for it and see how you get on. Everyone is different.

thanks folks.
kate - I have looked at PHD - I even designed my own bag, but couldn't afford the mortgage repayments on it! The minim 400 doesn't have a zip or DWR outer, and there's no option to add them as extra's in the sale. The 300 has the additional options, but is only rated down to 0, while the 500 doesn't have a DWR option. It's a pity, 'cos they look fantastic, although sale stock is limited on the 400 - I bet they go like hot cakes (or warm sleeping bags, anyway). Serves me right for being too picky - I may have to change my criteria.

mike - That's a good point about being too hot, though I probably don't sleep as hot as you. I noticed the outdoorshop price, but I really wanted to give oneoutdoors my custom if I was to buy the rab, as they're second to none on valuing the customer. The rab is £220 on there.

Dicky bird, you could try ringing them up tomorrow and seeing if they'll do the extras. They added a zip to my minim 400 for an extra £25 or so.

Another point is that the top bags are expensive because of the top quality down and materials. This obviously gives you a high warmth to weight ratio. If you are not carrying the bag any distance (car camping) then the weight doesn't matter and you can go for a cheaper bag. If i'm car camping in winter i often leave my expensive bags at home and bring a cheapo synthetic and loads of blankets.

Its a tough one , every one is different , some folk feel the cold some dont ,some like to sleep warm and snug others like to be cool whilst sleeping.
I,M on my third bag in 4 years and I nearly always end up hanging out of the top cos I,m too warm. Despite camping more in winter than summer (at least this year).
Its subjective the only way is to find out by experience ,costly but accurate.

rab rating is safe, its not tested like other bags, the EN thing

if you want a light bag around 0 or just under then in rab look at the quantum 250 as a comparitor to the glacier 300,
the different down qualities will mean an equalish temp,

as a note the water resisitant outers like endurance or dri-lite add a few degrees in heat retention

thanks all - much food for thought! Why is life never simple? This represents a major purchase for me, and if I don't get it right, I'll be kicking myself all the way down to my bank manager's office. The rab looks favourite at the moment - but I can't choose between the 250 or 400! I was trying to avoid the last-minute impulse buy that is the despair of my long-suffering wife, but it's looking like heads or tails!

i always recommend down bags as ive always slept so much better them, even cheaper down bags are excellent and last for years. i still have a Carinthia bag from years ago, still fully useable and lofts fairly well.

apparently tesco are selling cheap down bags? not seen 1 myself

id highly recoomend bags in the PHD sale, i just wished i needed another!

me too!

trying very hard to ignore the minim 500....shooo!! go away!!

BTW Kate, what is the temp rating on the Minim 400?

The Minim 400 is rated to -5C (I got one in last year's sale, and the 300 rated to 0C in February!). I also have a Minimus, and I find they'll all keep me warm a good few degrees below the rating (but I know that varies from person to person).

Quite - my Minim 400 is my April to September sleeping bag!! And I use an Exped down mat.

I have the RAB Quantum 400 - top quality bag. Recently survived Kilimanjaro and was comfortable from "pretty warm" at lower camps to "pretty cold" higher up. If you find you need something warmer later, you can send the bag to RAB and they will top up the down.

I have heard ME also offer a 30 day sleep guarentee. You buy the bag and if you find it hasn't been warm enough then you buy the next one up for the difference in price (and give the used one back obviously).

I am always surprised people get so excited by PHD bags (and clothing). The level of detail and quality is not that great (not the stuff I have seen anyway)...I guess you pay for the name and the option to mention you have one on outdoor forums.

Not sure what PHD stuff you have or haven't seen there Steve but I'm certainly not paying for the name (especially at sale prices) - I make my kit choices based on spec and quality - and as for your other comment, well....


... thanks for giving me the opportunity to say on this forum that I have several great items of PHD kit!! sorry, did you get that, PHD.... :)

the Minim 400 is a good price for the temp rating

whats the weight?

The quoted weight for a standard size zipless Minim 400 is 670g. Mine comes in at 700g in its stuffsac.

thats pretty good for the temperature rating!

makes the price even more of a bargain

Had you noticed, they've only got short-length Minim 400s in the sale this time :(
Don't know if that's any good for you?