Now I hope someone in the know will come on and correct me in this.

But while perusing the new Mountain Equipment ProShell jackets I couldn't help but notice that it had a security tag stuck through the fabric near the hem. So I had a look around and all the new stock is the same. All the waterproofs have had holes specially installed in them before display. These of course will widen a little every time the jacket is taken down to be tried on and looked at.

Oh.

My.

God.

Aren't the tags put on in store? Which branch was it? I guess the new staff member won't have a job by the end of the week, or maybe he's on OM and will surepticiously sneak in early tomorrow to move the tags in the hope that the customers don't spot it.

I've always found it amusing the ways they have to get round making holes in kit utilising the label or hook at the neck and hanging things on the zips etc. but have seen this before on occasion. 

Ha Ha reminds me of when I did work experience at school in a garage and the guy asked me to paint the guys tyre walls... yep I painted the whoel tyre!

How dumb can you be to put a pin through a £200+ waterproof jacket!

There is obviously a conflict of interest here caused by the very fact that these items are so expensive.

From the retailer's point of view, putting those security tags through labels, zips etc is not effective, since they are easily removable, whereas putting them through the garment themselves means it is more difficult for the shoplifter to remove them without the special tool.

As most people don't seem to worry and still purchase the items, I think that neither shop or manufacturer is going to care a monkeys about the issue!

Smeg, I didn't say anything as the assistant and I had already concluded our business. He recommended Windstopper and Paclite, and I said I'd rather be shot in the face than wear either. Oops.

Tony, the manufacturer should care. If the public don't it's because they're idiots and deserve to have a jacket with a hole in it.

The tag could be on; zip webbing; hood beardguards; hood retaining straps; pocket linings; hem drawcord webbing; labels; cuff adjusters. It's just shoddy and stupid putting it through the actual fabric anywhere on any item of clothing.

The shops should put our quality of garment before the slight possibility someone could run out of the shop with one. Whats more likely to happen, us pay over £200 for a coat or some scally run out of the shop with one!?

Its like those stupid scanner walls they have as you walk out of most shops, whats the damn point in them? 99% of the time it goes off it'll be some embaressed shopper who's made to look like a criminal who goes back to the till head down to find some dimwitted cashier left a tag on, the other 1% of the time will be an actual thief who can 9 times out of ten outrun the fat tubby backsided security gaurd who'll be half asleep anyway!

A long time ago, I did see this sort of stupidity in TKM.  But I pointed it out to the manager, and I've never seen it since; they pin through the cuff or the cuff adjuster, neither of which is going to cause any problem (I mean, what does a hole in the cuff matter, when it's adjacent to a rather larger hole for your little handies...)

It WAS Tiso, after all.  Any shop that can sell white-shelled down jackets obviously hasn't got a clue, IMHO... (TNF Numptes intended for Daddy's Little Skiing Princess, no doubt)

The point is that they DO it, and unless someone points it out, they don't care!

Manufacturers have the opt out of saying that it is not their doing, so take it up with the retailer, and all they are going to say if someone returns it, is that it was sold in that state so tough luck.

Like PTC says, if someone is dull enough to buy one in such circumstances, then maybe they deserve the consequences!

I can't agree with that last phrase.

Not everybody is aware that putting security tags in such a place damages the jacket. Some people just want a decent (and expensive) rain jacket that does what is supposed to do without having to deal with all the technical talk. You're not supposed to be an engineer before you have the right to buy a jacket to enjoy being outdoors. I know lots of such people. You can't blaim them for not knowing this while they trust the retailer to sell them what they think they need. Perhaps naive but that is how it works. Even then, they have the right to get a properly functioning jacket.

Putting the blame on the customer is just arrogant.

When they go to the checkout and see the assistant take a metal pin out of their jacket there will be those that say "Whoa, you can keep your jacket", those that think "Oh no look at that" and don't have the confidence to speak up, there will be those who don't notice as they're too excited about the new kit and there will be those who aren't interested.

The first one is me, the second and third are is why I started this thread so that maybe someone will now notice beforehand and not be put in that position. The last one deserves to get wet.

The only arrogance at play is demostrated in the positioning of the tags.

PS The Mountain Equipment Morpheus was really, really good. The tag stopped me buying it there and then.

Quote,

 "Putting the blame on the customer is just arrogant"

No that's life- unfortunately. And probabled consumer law too. The customer cannot complain IF THEY KNEW that the goods were in that state BEFORE buying them and still went ahead with the purchase.

 I would imagine that most reputable companies would wish to keep their good name and would probably sort it out, but I don't think in these particular circumstances they would be obliged to. If it were the case, any Tom Dick or Harry could place a pin hole in a Jacket after having second thoughts, and return it.

Surely, anyone with a modicum of common sense will realise that for a waterproof jacket to function correctly, there should be integrity of the material in the crucial areas?

I still maintain that most of the large retailers wouldn't give a monkeys about such issues and just deal with those who complain on a retrograde basis!

Let's put it this way, if it is brought to the manager's notice that this has occurred, then he/she is going to take the whole stock and return it to the manufacturers, right?

Or will they be back on sale a few days later with the tags removed hoping that no one will notice.

 Which do you think is more likely?

> The customer cannot complain IF THEY KNEW that the goods were in that state BEFORE buying them and still went ahead with the purchase

They can complain if they weren't told about the problem.  The retailer cannot rely on the defence that "the customer must have seen the tag in the jacket, so it's their fault"; they would have to actively and explicitly make the customer aware of the hole in the jacket.

The customer might not notice the security tag. They might simply take the jacket from the rack and take it straight to the checkout. They might not see the tag being removed. They might not be aware of the effect of the puncture.

The customer has a right to protection in all these cases.  Not only that, but the Sale of Goods Act puts the onus of proof on the retailer to prove that the item wasn't faulty within the first six months from purchase.