I'm trying to organise my outdoor wardrobe and was wondering what other people do in the way of having base layers, fleeces, micro fleeces, duvet jackets, down jackets and wind shield jackets etc. Do people wear thermals in the UK for winter camping? Are down jackets really needed or will fleeces do? I've heard fleeces are better for walking in and duvet jackets are better for spending time sat around at night in the tent. What would people suggest? Thanks in advance.
Personally I wouldn't use a down jacket in the UK, due to our damp climate. Down doesn't perform well when wet. Fleece or other synthetics for the UK, down for cold dry places.
Synthetic or light Merino wool base layer, Rab Vapour Rise or Marmot Driclime jacket (effectively mid-layer and windproof in one), synthetic duvet like ones from Rab, Montane and Berghaus. Thes are all you need under any conditions I've seen in UK, tho maybe you could carry a microfleece pullover as well.
Most fleeces are too hot when moving, and not as warm as a primaloft jacket when static. I know a lot of people like down, but they're too sensitive to the wet for my liking.
I tend to use three layers when walking, Berghaus X-Static base layer long sleeve top, Rab Phantom Jacket hooded windproof fleece and Berghaus Paclite Jacket. Then I also carry a North Face Flash lightweight down jacket in winter or when wild camping in autumn or winter.
Down jackets are too vulnerable to wear whilst walking but that isn't what they are for when backpacking, they are designed to be used by walkers for insulation when you stop walking and are settled down in your tent or on a dry cold nights camp outside of the tent. Down offers much better insulation for its weight than anything else available by a mile.
I have never ever had a problem walking in a fleece in most weather conditions except for hot weather. Try and get a more technical fleece and instead of being completely covered in thick warming fleece you'll have specially designed venting areas of slightly less warm materials in the appropriate places.
It also depends on the conditions in which you'll be walking, and wether you, personally, run hot or cold. Me, I just wear any old wicking tee shirt, a thin fleece over that, and sometimes a montane windshirt thing. But, I will always carry my trusty Paclite waterproof, and another warm layer to put on if necessary.
Backpacking also means I carry an insulated jacket most of the year, as the evenings out on the hill can get chilly. And it's a necessity from late summer onwards.
Over the years I have had most types of kit at some point. But what I distill out to being most useful is pretty much identical to what CP lists above. In the coldest weather, I carry a down jacket but when it came time to replacing my trusty Rab Glacier I couldn't justify the expense of a really good one so grabbed a bargain (£16 for a Timberland 80:20 600 fp jacket). Living in the South of France I don't need it very often!
The addition of a light windproof jacket is one of the best ways to add versatility and allows you to keep your insulation safely dry for when you need it around camp. Given that the last one I bought is a ridiculous 71g in size large (Helly Hansen Mars) it weighs less than one of my socks and allows many layering combinations. It works especially well with my Patagonia R2 Jacket.
90% of the time I wear a one-layer system... shirt and trousers... unless you count the underpants as another layer. The other 10% of the time, when it's cold and/or wet, then I put one more layer on, and that's the end of the story. Suits me fine summer and winter, high and low level, in all kinds of weather.
Dave - it's not that windproof and it's certainly not waterproof!
I should say a bit more about my one-layer system, and especially the top half. I'd say that over 99% of my time outdoors, I just wear a Paramo Trail Shirt. (The 1% of the time when I don't wear one is when someone literally whisks me away from the house without giving me time to change!) It's the sort of garment that works splendidly for me in just about all conditions...
1. If it's a cold day, then I wear it the 'right' way round with the sleeves rolled down and all the poppers done up the front. I might even turn the collar up.
2. If it gets warmer, then I can turn the collar down, undo some of the poppers, and maybe roll the sleeves up.
3. If it gets warmer still, then I turn the whole thing inside out, and because of the way the fabric is woven, it feels as though the temperature has dropped 10C!
4. Same thing applies if the temperature keeps rising, keep it inside out, unpopper the front and roll the sleeves up.
For nasty weather, when it's really cold and/or wet, I just put a Paramo Cascada on top of the Trail Shirt, and this is the equivalent of putting on a lightweight fleece and a total windblocking waterproof, only both together in a single garment. The net result, a shirt and top keeps me warm and dry in the worst conditions I've ever experienced. (For the record, the coldest that I KNOW it's been, that I've actually been able to check, is -26C.)
My trousers, for many years, were Lowe Alpine Wilderness Pants. I like polycotton for most conditions, since they're comfortable, light, hard-wearing, and if they get wet, they dry out again given half a chance. I did a bulk buy when Lowe Alpine gave up making them, and recently I've switched to Craghopper Kiwis, which are roughly the same thing. If it's really cold and/or wet, then I'm straight back to Paramo and their amazing trousers, which are of course worn next to the skin, and not as overtrousers.
That just leaves the underpants, which at the moment are Berghaus Techbase, and my socks, which are never anything other than Bridgedale, and at the moment are their Coolmax Liners and Ventum Light Hikers.
So... to sum up... one layer for almost the whole year... and two layers for the worst possible winter conditions. If I'm backpacking, or otherwise travelling away from home, I also pack the flimsiest of shirts (Paramo) and trousers (Rohan) for the evenings, along with spare underpants and socks, and I usually throw in a Buff because it's a fairly multi-functional thing and doesn't take up much space. And that't my lot!
it seems that you are impervious to heat and cold... and in another post you more or less stated that you have no need of food when out and about. Are you perhaps the next evolutionary step of outdoorsman? Or are your origins a closely guarded state secret of early cold-war genetic experimentation?
I think Paddy's secret may lie in the fact that he is using Paramo (and this can apply for other softshells) as it was intended i.e. next to the skin and open to the elements. As soon as you complicate such a system (with extra layers) you may end up overwhelming the system and it's performance may suffer as a result. Some people tend to ignore this "less is more" principle of the softshell and immediately discount them as rubbish.
John - no way am I impervious to heat and cold, but I have found a simple way to dress according to prevailing conditions, and it suits me fine. I'm sure that if I went out in a cotton teeshirt and jeans in the middle of winter, I'd have a thoroughly miserable time. I'm also sure that if I was packing five changes of clothing and carrying the weight of it up a mountain in midsummer, I'd wish I'd never been born! I've found a minimal set of clothing that covers me for all conditions, and as a result I'm not busting my guts carrying more than I need to uphill. As I don't set out to 'conquer' mountains, but just plod up and down them at a very comfortable pace, I'm not really expending all that much energy, so I don't seem to need much food as a result, so that means my pack is lighter and easier to carry. It's the opposite of a 'viscious circle'... whatever that might be! This summer I trekked across the French Alps from Geneva to Nice and back again, and other walkers I met commented on the same thing time and time again... that I was carrying very little, using very few clothes, and eating and drinking very little. After 10 weeks and 1000 miles without a single day off, I weighed exactly the same as when I started, and felt as fit as a fiddle. Even though I took only one 'set' of walking clothes, I was covered for all conditions from snow to heatwave, and the only thing I wore out were my socks! In short... I must be doing something right!
I think you are doing plenty of things right! Very few of us could hope to 'master' backpacking as effectively as you have. If we all applied such wisdom, then I don't think the gear manufacturers would make a lot of money!
I'm not there yet! I won't rest until I can walk along holding a string and have my pack float on the end of it like a helium balloon. Another 10kg off my pack weight should do it!
I have recently converted to the god that is Paramo. i purchased a Velez smock and really have not looked back since. After reading your piece above I may be tempted to try the reversible shirt too. The only downside is that I just couldnt get on with the paramo trousers and they did not feel comfy in the crotch area so i had to opt for rab trousers who crotch sizing seems perfect for me (if you'll excuse the expression). I dont carry overtrousers as a rule of thumb now since if it is 3 season walking I will wear the rab stretch pants which were a revelation to me and if its winter walking I will wear the Rab VR trousers
I went out and about last weekend with just this set up so was in Rab stretch pant, Merino wool baselayer and velez smock. I found that i could just about cope with the heat the smock generated whilst walking but any warmer and i would have been lobster. I found that even at a temp of mid single figures I was walking most decidedly warm with this combo so have no fears for the winter using this layering system
> I'm also sure that if I was packing five changes of clothing and carrying the weight of it up a mountain in midsummer, I'd wish I'd never been born!
Paddy, the five layers aren't always carried; you select layers from the five possibles, depending on the climate and your chosen activity.
You wear a Trail shirt, which weighs 440g
You carry a Cascada, which weighs 861g.
Now then, I might wear & carry
Synthetic long sleeved base layer 170g 100 weight fleece 230g Pertex windshirt 90g lightweight waterproof 350g
840g so far...
If I'm expecting it to be very cold, or I'm stopping overnight, I might carry a Montane Solo 370g
So I have a clothing system that weighs 1210g, vs your 1300g.
Pretty similar weights, then.
I couldn't get away with two layers; I would be uncomfortable, or, at times, at risk. I'm fairly skinny, run hot and rest cold, so I need the versatility that a layered system offers.
Different systems suit different people, and you've found what works for you. I've found what works for me and my particular physiology; no-one's wrong. I recommend my system because it's very versatile and adaptable, and can be used for a wide variety of activites.
Hmmm... my Trail Shirt weighs in at 425g and my Cascada 845g, so the total is 1270g. However, that's winter wear. For summer, it'll still be a Trail Shirt, but when I'm not expecting much rain, I'll carry a much lighter wind/waterproof, such as a Montane tipping the scales at 325g, which is 100g less than the Trail Shirt! I packed a Montane to the Alps, but only used it on half-a-dozen occasions in 10 weeks, since it hardly ever rained. The Trail Shirt got worn every day, right-way-round and inside-out, so my foul-weather pack weight was essentially the 325g for the Montane.
