 As OM regulars will know, I am the coldest sleeper on earth. I use a PhD minim 400 with a comfort rating of -5c from April to September, just to give you an idea of just how cold I sleep. Last winter from early November to March I used an Alpkit AD 700 with a comfort rating of -12c and was cold. Frozen cold. Had to put on several layers and was still cold. So I'm in the market for something a wee bit warmer, probably around the -20c comfort rating. I'm keen to get into wildcamping so want something that's going to be portable, which almost certainly means down. Two of the obvious candidates are the Alpkit AD900, comfort rating -20c, weight c.1.6 kg (depending on length) and the PhD minim 800, comfort rating -24, weight c.1.2 kg. Obviously there's rather a large price difference, but my warmth is the most important thing. Any views on these, or any other suggestions? cheers. ps. if anyone's interested in acquiring a standard length PhD Minimus with left zip, in green, I'm not sure I'm ever likely to be camping somewhere where a +5c rated bag is warm enough, so I'm open to reasonable offers.
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 They both sound pretty hardcore to me. I presume the PHD is more expensive. If you can afford it, do it is my advice - we both know how lovely PHD kit is  I've got a Minimus, but might be interested in the Alpkit if you don't want that anymore.
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I'm afraid the Alpkit's a short, NNPB, their shorts are very slightly longer than PhDs so fitted me whereas I need a standard PhD. Sorry.
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Will just have to get a liner for my Minimus then, that should do me!
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.jpg) Have you tried the minimus inside the minim Kate probably still lighter than the weight of a heavy down bag?
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 No doubt an alpkit ad900 will be mighty warm (not convinced about -20 rating though!), but I wouldn't wanna lug it round if I was wild camping, its still huge when packed down. Probably something like the pipedream 600 would be more viable, and wear more clothing in bed (e.g a down jacket)?
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Out of interest, what are you sleeping on Kate?.
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RAB will add (or take away) down from a bag for you - they charge £25 per 100gms - so if you bought one of theirs you would have the option of getting it beefed up if necessary. I'm sure PHD would do something similar. If you aren't particularly tall, it might be worth getting a Short bag to save weight.
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After my experiences with the AD700, I'm inclined to agree with Ben about the rating on the 900 which is why I was looking at the Minim 800, but I'm pretty certain that even wearing insulating clothing, a Pipedream is just not going to do it. MoS, when car camping in the winter I sleep on an Exped downmat 9 on top of a closed cell mattress for additional insulation. On Dartmoor I was using the downmat 9 and the minim 400 and was comfortable - even had to open the 400 up by about 6 am. That was in early June and I've no idea what the temperatures were at night, but it was pretty hot during the day. It's very hard to explain to people with normal metabolisms just how cold I get, but if I am not moving I simply cannot keep warm. It affects my day-to-day life as well - at the moment at home I'm using a 9.5 tog duvet and a hot water bottle and have been doing so all summer, though didn't use the hottie from about June to the end of August. Thanks, ALS for your suggestion - I'll have a look at the RAB bags too.
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Kate, I was trying out a couple of Matt's bags on Dartmoor and remember thinking I slept about 5-7° warmer than you and I consider myself a cold sleeper. I doubt it got colder than 10° at night that weekend. Just checked the records for Haytor - it was 8.6° on the Friday night and 10° on the Sat., so probably about the same at Princetown. You're getting good insulation from the ground then. I try to put on extra layers in the evening before I'm even aware of getting colder and I find that I'm more likely to stay warm all night if I get into my bag already feeling toasty. Wearing a wooly hat is something I've tried recently and that made quite a difference too. Good luck with the search.
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That's interesting, MoS, because I'd estimated that I sleep about -15c colder than the 'average' person (based on sleeping bag comfort ratings and my experiences). I use a beanie hat and have started using a Sigg bottle as a hottie, and I've some down sleeping socks on order from gogogear!! I'm aiming to be toasty warm rather than just barely warm enough and therefore not a happy camper
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 Sigg Bottle as a HW bottle!
What a bloody fabulous idea. {rummage rummage} Thats it, nalgene in the 'spare bits box', Sigg reinstated.
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No, I hadn't seen them, Lam Snave - look rather nice. And how cool is having a sleeping bag called Ragnarok?!! Will look into them - anyone on here got one? Fossill Bluff - stick the Sigg in a walking sock for a cover or you'll risk burning your feet!!
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 Hiya Kate, Jo is a cold sleeper too, can I ask if you are sleeping alone in your tent? If so maybe consider "buddying up" with someone as this will increase the temp retention between you and in the tent. What about the RAB top bag, it's light and considering that you are getting good ground insulation that maybe the answer...just maybe. If it is really cold I always make a hot chocolate and put it in my flask cup then go for a 30min summit stroll at bed time (but i always pitch very close to the summit when wild camping) warms the muscles up, gets the blood pumping and then return for a nice hot choccy laid on my sleeping bag to warm it up before the 20 second undress and in. If all else fails a couple of very stiff and large....... ........................................................ single malts sets me off nicely!!!! Drew
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Some interesting ideas there, Drew! Shall I send an advert into "Trailmates"? Cold woman seeks man radiating warmth as tentmate? Will probably pop into Up & Under tomorrow to have a poke at their bags - they stock Rab and Tundra; but at the moment, I think PhD and Yeti are serious contenders.
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 You could look at your diet, maybe try eating some high fat foods before you go to bed. - Cheese, salami etc. It may well generate some extra heat while you sleep and halp you stay warm.
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Thanks for the other suggestions about how to generate warmth and stay warm - most of which I've tried!! Unfortunately I'm just a human iceberg, and I do need a warmer bag than my current -12. So, any other suggestions, and does anyone have experience of those Yeti bags? thanks!
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 Will probably pop into Up & Under tomorrow to have a poke at their bags Act 1, Scene 1 Cold woman enters camping shop in Cardiff with a manic glint in her eye and purpose in her gait.... "excuse me young sir, I come to take a look at and a poke at your bags as i need to keep warm" Petrified shop assistant... "I 'm afraid we're not that kind of shop madam"
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