Just a thought. I was in Adaptoutdoors in Liverpool last Saturday and had to leave after about 3 seconds. Just couldn't move for the army of 16 year old chavs trying on anything in black by TNF or Berghaus. Fair enough in a way, they're just as entitled to it as I am (though I tend to avoid those particular brands partly for this reason) and how many of us just have to have the latest shiny kit from the toy shop. But given that (in Liverpool at least) I would imagine the population of Chavs massively outweighs the population of 'genuine' hillwalkers, does anyone think that an element of genuine functional design innovation might be being lost through an attempt to appeal to this clearly massive and lucrative (forget images of Liverpool being poor-the average scouse chav spends more on clothes than I do on my house) market ? Or have these brands long given up on functional design anyway? So does it matter ? Just another thought-never seen a chav wearing Paramo.
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 it's fashionable. it was levi's in my day (well, before the orange embriodered loons took over <shudders> . paramo - if it was tastefully cut in nice colours it may stand a chance.
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I think many outdoor gear makers do some lines which are more fashion than function, and TNF and Berghaus certainly do, but that doesn't put me off buying the good stuff they do — why should it?
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Its Fashion.Berghaus has not long since opened a store in the Metrocentre Gateshead.Its right amonst the fashion stores and caters for Berghaus gear only.I,ve been in once to have a look and its nothing like an outdoor shop.Maybe thats the way Berghaus want to go.Forget them, theres plenty better gear on the market.
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"chavs" spend a lot of time loitering outdoors in all weather conditions. They need functional gear too.
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Moaning about chavs getting in on outdoor brands and diluting them for serious walkers is very unimaginative. Let them get on with it.
I could say the same about middle aged walkers who tackle *treacherous* terrain like the 'South Downs Way' in spring, kitted out in full waterproofs and full on expedition gear.
Berghaus and TNF still make some good gear. TNF Redpoint Optimus... cracking hooded insulating jacket... also wear it in town like a proper chav
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 Be greatfull you could look at it this way. The chavs buying the cheper end of the market is subserdising the research that is needed to develop the technical high end gear.
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I would worry a lot more about companies that employed child labour or knowingly caused pollution.
Besides, why shouldn't Berghaus and TNF exploit chavs, as long as they still try to please their traditional market as well? Arcteryx, Patagucci, Sprayway and many others use similar marketing tactics.
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 I must have been in Adapt Outdoors at the same time as you Clive!
They are a bloody pest these kids. All I can say is that they are keeping the only good outdoors shop in Liverpool going, mind you they are starting to sell a lot of cheap rubbish now.
I had a cracking laugh at a kid having a major strop in Go Outdoors a few weeks ago when his parents insisted they were only going to get him a Trespass/Regatta type brand waterproof; you should have seen the look on his face when I agreed with the folks that TNF etc was overpriced, and hardly worth wasting money on just just for the school run.
I then bought some Rab gear just to piss him off even further.
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Orange embroidered loons Parky,those were the days!, was it you i saw at the Grand Funk Railroad concert in Hyde Park or the Emerson Lake and Palmer one at the Oval? But i can confirm from a wayward nephew that TNF is the outfit of choice for London soccer hooligans. The TNF baseball cap is much favoured at West Ham but Armani still rules at Charlton!
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 Was in Snow & Rock and the Berghaus shops at the Metro Centre, both had rather worried looking security guards hovering round groups of dodgy looking lads. Must be a nightmare if you get a decent jacket lifted.
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Hey Doctor Just noticed your post. Agree with your comments about Adapt. As we seem to live in the same city, share at least one interest and apparantly the same profession, give me a shout if you ever want to share a car up to the hills. Then we can winge about the chavs to our little hearts content
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 Don't know, but whenever I go into AdaptOutdoors these days they seem to stock more and more military type stuff.
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 Where does Sprayway fit in with all this stuff? Is it Chav, Dog Walker or OMer type stuff. I never see it being mentioned on OM.
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 Six weeks ago, the shop I work at had 11 black TNF jackets (I can't remember which model). Now we have none. We haven't sold any either. 
Much as the likes of TNF make some good kit, I could never bring myself to wear it now.
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You'll be seeing Sprayway mentioned a lot more as they have a new designer [ Julie, previously at Montane] and well known to us folks at OM
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 I also do a lot of sailing as well as walking. Henri-Lloyd has also suffered from the chav tag. Henri-Lloyd have 2 distinct versions of kit, the high performance sailng stuff and the 'fashion stuff' A friend of mine runs a well known chandlery and he tells me that the kids come into his place and ask all kinds of technical questions about the jackets. They want the proper stuff. Must get very damp in chav land 
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 Very judgemental this thread... I dont know what a 'chav' is - but it does sound as though you are making a distinction between yourself and 'others' who you consider to be less worthy of wearing the same clothes as you?? Maybe I have the wrong end of the stick, of course we all have opinions and mine is just one. 
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I dont know what a `chav' is. where do you live fossil Uzbekistan?
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