Ive recently purchased a TN Laser comp in nice shiny red. I didnt even consider the laser for ages as I assumed wrongly that it would be twice the price due to it being the worlds lightest and all. I got it in the bargain section on the TN website but it was still stretching my budget a little.

In my search for a light weight solo tent I did come across many american tents that were very light and seemed to be nearly perfect except for the mesh inner which 'Matt C' I think it was? pointed out may not be suited too well to our damp climate.

 Why then do they not make these tents with a fabric inner and whatever other small changes to the design that would be suitable for british weather, and then put them on sale here?  Surely it wouldnt increase the weight of the tent that much? there must be loads of tents that would only need a few tweaks to the design to make them viable options to the british solo tent market.

any thoughts? does anybody agree or am i just being silly?

I agree Sandy, you think it would be easy enough to jsut swap a roll of mesh for a roll of proper inner stuff and make a couple of tents to broaden the possibilities.

I have an american tent, a MHW Skykedge 2 which has an all mesh inner. But to be honest, its great. From April to september it ws really good, it is totally weather proof thats for sure, on a windy day the only notable difference is it would be cooler then a complete inner tent, but then again you wont get condensation problems at all. And a tent with a mesh inner feels loads bigger, the inner on mine is pretty tiny really, and with a solid body inner would feel extremely tight, so its really nice as it feels loads bigger, and you can tie the doors back and have a full panormaic view pretty much.

The Skyledge is solid too, its my Summer or 3 season tent especially for hotter weather camping. Certainly dont rule out mesh inner tents if you are not planning for for winter and the worse of spring and summer camping.

IMHO you require a mesh inner for summer, spring, autumn in this country and a water repelant nylon 'non mesh inner'  is nice for winter conditions. 

It is possible to get inner tents made to order by manufacturers or tent repairers.  I have and although you have to pay you end up with what you want/ need and when people look at your tent and go 'Wow, how? etc ' you can go smug. 

Tent repairers may also be able to put extra ventilation in a full winter non mesh inner tent for you so it is more comfortable in the summer or snow valance etc for winter use.

Of course a tent that the fly goes all the way to the ground will probably be fine in this country all the year round if the inner is all mesh as would a tent which sits off the ground with a full nylon non mesh inner. 

You may be able to purchase a spare inner tent that can be butchered to your specification. 

Aye, Sandy T, I'm pretty sure I did warn against full mesh inners for the UK, and I'm afraid I disagree with Hayden - I don't need a mesh inner for any season in this country, thank you very much!! I used a mesh-inner tent (TNF Mountain Marathon) for three summers, including week long backpacking trips in the UK, Pyrenees and Norway. It was in many ways a good little tent but it's failing imo was down to wet weather, and it's not as if we don't get plenty of that in this country in any season of the year.

As far as I can see, a full mesh inner might in the past have saved weight on a tent, but I suspect that's becoming less true (look at the TN Superlite tent range). Apart from that it provides good ventilation in hot, dry conditions. The ventilation isn't necessarily a problem when it gets colder, depending whether you have the other kit to cope with it (I handles -4C at night on my Norway trip).

But as soon as it gets wet then it becomes difficult to keep yourself and your kit dry inside the tent. Damp finds its way into the inner in a variety of ways:

• pitching in wet conditions if it's 'inner-first'.
• packing a wet tent together if it's 'pitch together'
• condensation dripping  through the mesh
• condensation blowing through the mesh in windy conditions
• rain falling onto the mesh  through open porch doorways, or off the outer fabric itself depending on the design....

I wonder if there is anybody on here from a tent manufacturer that could give their views on tweaking the design of their mesh innered (is that even a word!? Think I may have made that up!) tents to suit our damp conditions?

 Surely most of the big manufacturers are missing out on an extremely lucrative market by confining their designs to warm dry climates. Almost all the big names, especially in the lightweight ranges, have complete or almost complete mesh inners for a lot of their range.

On the SUW last year we used our TNF Merlin 33, now the weather was less than perfect with reasonable winds 20-30mph'ers and quite alot of rain. Now the wind was not an issue as the tent is well able to deal with them (was quite impressed actually) but the biggest issue was the condensation brought about by a low pressure, alot of rain and 2 adults breathing.

The problem manifested something like this. A large amount of condensation laying on the inner tent, enough to pool and form 1-2ml droplets in close proximity to each other, add heavy rain to that and you get a "Knock off effect". As the rain droplets hit the flysheet the energy transfers through and the shock dislodges a condensation droplet on the inner side of the fly, gravity then takes over for a mo and the condensation droplet lands on the "MESH" inner. Some of the water strikes through and hey presto you have tiny damp patches all over you sleeping bags.

Thats why full mesh tents are not always so good for the UK climate due to our HUMIDITY levels.

No then i have no issues using this tent in the winter and have done on may occasions and will continue to do so, but i tend to use it at higher alltitude and when i know it's going to be quite dry air i.e when we are expecting frost or snow. The "Draft" does not worry me to much as my sleeping bag has a windproof outer shell and plenty of toasty warm insulation.

Drew

Have just looked at a pic of the merkin on TNF's web page. Again why dont they drop the mesh for the inner in this country. I really cant see it being hot enough to warrant that much ventilation in blighty. If it was I certainly wouldnt be sitting in my tent!

Some more points to consider-

With a large amount of mesh on the inner tent there is better ventilation alround therefore less condensation forms on the inner surfaces of the fly. 

I had a semi geodesic tent which was mainly mesh and never had condensation issues even in the most humid, freezing, still, rainy conditions. 

I have a 'mesh inner' and a 'solid fabric' inner for one of my tents and for summer, spring, autumn use I prefer the light airy feel and extra ventilation of the mesh. 

In winter I prefer the extra warmth and protection from the elements from the solid inner tent though a full mesh inner works fine providing I dont press the inner mesh against the fly if condensation is present. 

I find my winter (force ten spindrift) tent a little too warm/stuffy in the summer and have thought many times how nice it would be to have a mesh inner tent made for it for warmer weather.

Tent desigh can have a big part to play in the condensation issue -  Tents with flat tops to them (TNF merlin etc) may be worse in certain conditions than tents with steeper walls, ceilings (TNF particle 13) etc as the condensation may not run down the fly and will hang and drip...

Lastly tent manufacturers location may determine what compromise they have made when designing a tent.  This would be an intersting study.

I prefer tents that give the best of both worlds: full mesh panel doors with zip-over "solid" panels.  Chimney vents are good too, for ventialtion at the discretion of the occupant.

With the caveat that I've never had a look at a Warmlite tent, frankly I've not seen an American tent that I wouldn't sooner have something from Europe instead.  They seem overly fixated on inner-first pitches, mesh inners and taped seams and they're not actually any lighter when compared feature for feature, and regulations requiring flame retardant fabrics in many states appear to be the reason why outer fabrics often aren't as good as ones like Saunders and Hilleberg have been using for decades now.

The point of a mesh inner is primarily bug protection.  You don't need that in winter in the UK, so you might as well dispense with the whole thing and just take a decent groundsheet if you really want to save weight.

Pete. 

They were custom made!  For the Akto and I may be looking at getting one made for my force ten spindrift for warmer weather...

I would have thought it could be possible to sell a standard tent with both! Consider the number of people who like a mesh tent in warm weather and a non-mesh tent in cold weather - surely the manufacturers could cash in on this by providing one flysheet and two inners (perhaps sold separately).

Our man Cruxster has two flysheets for his Crux inner (Storm & Bomb) - perhaps we're coming to the time when a tent should be a modular choice (poles, inner, flysheet, guys, pegs) etc. With online ordering, I can't see that it would be too difficult...

Any manufacturers listening?

John

Hilleberg have already started with "modular" John: check out the Stallon Combi and Atlas (though it looks like the Muddus modular ridge-tent has been doscontinued).  Still a way to go though...

Pete. 

Theyre not really what John suggests though. Theyre jsut like seperate rooms you can put together. I like your idea John, pick and mix tent. Choose what poles, what inner, what fly, what footprint etc..  For a truly customisable tent.

Oh its a hot summer day, I'll take my light poles and pegs and mesh inner

Or a cold winter wet day, non-mesh innter, stronger poles, possibly snow pegs.

Or a step further again and have different fly's that fit the same structure. So strogner material if needed, or different colour, possibly a vestibule extension fly... Would be good, though I cant see having several of the options being cheap

JB, that would spoil the fun for the likes of me/ Cruxter and co!

No No, keep it quite!

But if ForceTen Tents are listening pleaese make me a full mesh or part mesh inner tent for my spindrift first, oh and a green fly without the storm flaps too...

Hayden

Interesting thread about mesh inners. My old Jack Wolfskin Pocket Hotel has mesh in a band on the sides and the sloping back, but a normal fabric to the top. Great for summer camping, but I've been realising that early spring and late autumn the mesh is a problem. A very wet 4 inches of problem at the foot of the tent on a sloping pitch. At least the mesh allowed the water to flow out once it passed the height of the groundsheet.

Your best bet with the different inners would probably be smaller manufacturers like Hillebergs. They are supposed to be helpful suppliers, if enough people ask for it...