I read Jon's Gearblog article with interest regards the Tunnel tents survival when the Full geo's got mashed to bits.

Well as a keen Full Geo owner and promoter i can give you a few reasons as to why this happened and can happen. The tips I have listed below are from experience, from breaking hundreds of pounds worth of 4/5 season tents the latest being only a few weeks ago on Bowfell (I love it)

Firstly jon's comments regards the flexibility of tunnel designs and there ability to absorb wind strike is quite correct and I would not dispute that fact at all, I posted some video of some hillebergs getting absolutely slammed some time ago and the distortion is amazing.

Lets look at the basics regards foul weather pitching of a Full geodesic tent.

Pitch the tent correctly orientated to the wind (if it has a pole supported porch this should be away from the wind direction and allow the rear of the tent to be in the strike line)

Ensure all pegs are well grounded at a 35deg angle

Ensure you guy lines are extended for "Storm guying" acute angle guys i.e short ones offer little help and can increase the risk of "folding" My guys extend to 4m for stormy conditions.

Have 4x spare guys in the bag of 4m length these do not need an adjuster you can use these as double lines left slightly slack on a different peg/rock etc

Shock cord loops with fixed line limit the guy to tent connection (like a sternham strap on a ruck sack) this helps absorb the big hitters. The biggest mistake folk make is to set the guys so tight that it does not allow the poles to fully absorb the wind and the fly is placed in a potential fail situation due to the fact that all the stress is on the guy points stitching rather than the tent as a whole.

Slack line auxilary guy points if you have them, you only need to place about 3" of slack on the line, this is your tents last stand support!!

Double peg/rock the Main guy points.

Use "V" shaped pegs for guy lines Titanium/Alloy wire type pegs are nice and light but have so little surface area that they tent to pull out as soon as the fist farts of a wind hit you.

If the tent is using 3 way guy points seperate them and use 3 lines and 3 pegs this reduces the stress on an single peg and spreads the load.

Sleep to the edge of the tent this stops the wind getting underneath and you  can support it then in the event of big folds.

Know where your pole emergency sleeves/splints are and maybe have one gaffa taped to the exposed part of each pole at the front and one at the rear.

If In doubt about the tents ability to weather the storm, drop the poles flat and retreat to your bivvy bag, a few  Uncomfortable hours in a bivvy bag can ensure that your tent will live another day. Be carefull when you drop the tent though as the wind can ballon and kite the little blighter forcing rips and pole snaps.

If you are wild camping without a bivvy bag/survival bag during the winter then I have to say your a bloody idiot and asking for trouble.

I know that what I have suggested will add many many grammes to your backpack that you may have spent hundreds of pounds getting lighter but think about it, take it from me a total additional weight of 600g's for the bivvy bag, storm guys and pegs is well worth it I promice you.

This is only a giude and methods I employ myself. The first rule is to always look for a sheltered spot but I like summit pitches and my tent breaking history reflects this.

And finnally buy a red or yellow tent as these are much sexier and most deffinatley cooler than plain old boring green!!!!!!!!!

Drew

Let's hear it for the tunnels!

Here it is Jon

i like this so much i've bookmarked it.

well explained cruxster.

Thats a good bit of advice Crux. Intersting read.

On my hilleberg, do you think it would make a difference to use shock cord to attatch the guy lines onto? As they attatch directly to the poles anyway it would really make much difference I assume?

Smeg its all about absorbtion of wind energy rather than deflection, It would probably pay to have some 6mm shock corded loops with limit cord ready for a the guy to peg connection I have these 6x in a pocket on my Eureka 5th Season EXO just incase.

As Jon said ref the F10 wind test, that is a constant 60-70-80mph test but does not take into account the effect of a sudden increase in wind speed from 50 to 80mph which is when the damage happens. Not only that the effect of a low pressure behind the gust which throws the tent in the opposit direction from which it has just been slammed.

Some good points in there, but... 

Pitch the tent correctly orientated to the wind (if it has a pole supported porch this should be away from the wind direction and allow the rear of the tent to be in the strike line)

Something I always like to try and do, but if the very strong wind is being caused by a monster depression traversing the area by the time you're wanting to be dreaming the wind could well be coming from a very different direction...

Some tents aren't directional, domes being an obvious case in point.  While many domes aren't built to take winds, something like a Staika can be trusted in just about anything because there's more to it than shape and pole configuration. 

Ensure all pegs are well grounded at a 35deg angle

Again, it's very good practice but in difficult ground it isn't alsways possible, ansd related to that...

Use "V" shaped pegs for guy lines Titanium/Alloy wire type pegs are nice and light but have so little surface area that they tent to pull out as soon as the fist farts of a wind hit you.

if it's really stony ground it can be possible to get a skewer in properly where a V-stake will hardly penetrate at all.It can be worth going out for a re-peg and re-tension one or more times during the night just to keep stuff in trim.

As far as the tunnel vs. geo goes, it needs to be remembered that all tunnel tents are not created equal and all geodesics are not created equal either, so a straight comparison assuming they are isn't really going to be very helpful.  It's quite easy to find examples of either that you riether would or wouldn't trust in a real blow.  As above with my point about the Staika, you need to look at things like the basic material and pole strength along with the poling setup.  All else being equal, either basic design, if well implemented and pitched well, will stand up to winds it's designed to cope with.  One thing to note about geodesics and domes is they're more tolerant of poor piches because they stand up on their own, though whether poor pitches will be an issue depends on where you're going.  I do like a geo for sea kayaking becuase I might be forced ashore by a gale and have to pitch on a shingle beach, or my choice of sites in some areas may be small skerries with little or no soil for pegs, but I've never found getting a decent pitch to be a problem when I've been walking.  Another thing about the geo for paddling is the greater weight and bulk are practically a non-issue, not the case when walking.

Pete. 

Pete as long as you are using V pegs with holes in you can wedge the peg between rocks and in cracks if you loop through the peg and rather than inserting into the ground use it as a land anchor instead using a 4m guy increases your chance of getting a peg point aswell. or tieing onto a rock.

Cruxster, if you have a flush ground surface with lots of stones and rocks in the soil (possibly part frozen soil) then a skewer will go in and hold better than a V stake, holes or not.  Guess how I found that out...

Moral is take some of each if you're in doubt.

Pete. 

Parky, since those figures are the shockcord diameter I'd presume not - 6mm is 4 times 'thicker' than 3mm!

Of course that might not be all there is to it..... 

I emailed Hilleberg a few years ago to ask about 4 season tents for camping in the Scottish hills in winter.

They said that all their 4 season tents would do the job, but that a Nammatj or Keron (both tunnels) would be my best bet. The former proved to be reliably hoolie-proof, although the distortion on the Hilleberg video looks rather familiar!

Double pegging the corner guys is advisable in especially strong winds, but I never had to worry about anything else (or carry a bivvy).

Pete I agree, I do have both in my peg bag, besides I pack pegs for the terrain and conditions.  You can always trough the ground and use a V peg like a deadman and V pegs are better for digging in a peg than wire ones.

6mm shock cord V's 3mm.....it's all about the stretch resistance and return contraction. For example most Terra Nova's use 6mm cord for the peg points for that very reason as well as long term durability. 

You can always trough the ground

For some values of "always", that is...  For the most part true, granted, but in part frozen ground it's really just a case of banging it in with a rock as best you can: digging and troughing just isn't a goer

Pete. 

Further on this, from Jon's article:

maybe the likes of Macpac, Lightwave and Hilleberg with their preference for tunnels have a point.

it's worth pointing out that all of those manufacturers make non-tunnels too, and that's further proof that there's no such thing as a "best" design, but it's all about context of use. Hilleberg promote their domes and geodesics not on any extra ability to stand winds but on better snow-loading characteristics (sadly, a bit of a moot point in the UK these days...) and the ability to pitch them on magrinal pitches where bombproof pegging can be something of a "partial success"

Jon notes that the tent that died was 12 years old and thus possibly well weakened, but aside from configuration it may be worth considering factors that would help weaken it. The Lightwave noted uses silicone coatings and no seam tape, where many tents use PU coated flys and seam tape. When PU coatings are applied to nylon flysheet fabrics the process heat ages the fabric and weakens it to a far greater degree than silicone elastomer coatings. Seam taping further heat-ages the fabric, and it does that specifically at the seams which are already the weakest place. PU coats on the outside don't inhibit UV like silicone coatings and nylon suffers badly from UV degradation over time (polyester is much better in that respect, and also doesn't stretch when wet, but on the other hand the basic strength to start with is not quite as good) , so again a choice of materials allied to age can really compromise a tent, and of course you're not going to pick up stuff like that testing a new tent over a few days.

Of those 3 manufacturers Jon picks out for making excellent tunnels, they all favour double coating of silicone elastomer on the fly and no seam taping for optimum strength. That will have a big effect on whether the tent rips to bits in a storm, and is a detail I'm more interested in than "is it a dome or a geo?"

Pete.

Not to mention that it was a cheap mid 90's Jamet tent with pin and ring pole fixings and an outdated design.

Peter some very very interesting points raised regards the coatings and the heat fatigue that the processes generate to the fabrics, these points are extreamly important when investing £300+ on your tentage.

New generation tents have through velcro straps(normally connected to the guying point) that enable fly to pole/inner tent connection albeit a by product of fly only pitching with GSP option but it does increase the structural strength.

This thread was not meant to start yet another Tunnel V's Geo debate nor to discuss the benefits of Wire V's V-peg but to simply look at how to guy a tent correctly and more importantly when to cut your losses and drop the tent to preserve your shelters integrity when conditions exceed your equipments capabilities so you can pitch it when conditions are more favourable.

I have pushed two tents to destruction in the past, from that i have learnt many many things, not all of which can be applied in every situation. Why.....mother nature has this amazing ability to suprise and be extreamly unpredictable.

New generation tents have through velcro straps(normally connected to the guying point) that enable fly to pole/inner tent connection albeit a by product of fly only pitching with GSP option but it does increase the structural strength.

Maybe not had enough coffee today, but could you rephrase that please?  Don't really understand it at all, and don't know what "GSP option" is, and am rather unsure of what marks a "new generation" tent from an old one...

Ta, Pete.