 Evening all... are we well? Good. Right. Can anybody help me with my decision over sleeping mat for my next trip. Not spent a planned amount of time in a snowhole before, either been a practice one or something unplanned but necessary! Going off to Finse in Norway in March, and planning on a few nights snowholing. So Bivvy bag and sleeping sorted, but what to put underneath? Full length or three quarter? Therm a rest or Alpkit? Self inflating or closed cell foam? I'm 6'2", on the well-built side (muscle weighs more than fat and all that!  ) and tend to sleep on my side. Any recommendations or advice gratefully accepted. Ta
|
 |
Hi lucky you Finse sound tempting.Have a look at some of the huge ones that get built round there,like palaces.. I always now use the thicker Thermarest if i am carrting that and a wind shelter.If you can still get hold of it try to have some Thin Karrimat[it used to be available on rolls] This sort of stuff can be used to lean on when cooking and put down the back of your sleeping bag in case you roll against the wall. I aso have used as back up the thin silver covered foam sold as behind radiator insulation. If you are going to Finse try the DNT hut at Hallingshed down in its bowels you can have ice and snow pressed against the window.The snow is sometimes higher than the roof. Keep warm and hope the wind is not too bad,good luck chris
|
|
Forgot to mention: weight is an issue, for ease of carrying but mainly due to stupid baggage weight limits on airline. tsk. Don't even get me started on where i m hiding my stove! Thanks Chris, i m trying not to get too excited! I generally take a half size old Karrimat for Scottish days, for sitting and emergency use. I tend to spread out my bothy bag on the floor as well, so that should help. Of the thermarests, i was looking at the prolite 4. Any thoughts? I think we have four nights under the snow, so the temptation to expand and modify the hole in the night will be strong!
|
|
 You'll freeze with a Thermarest. If you want to use one then use with a closed cell foam mat - you might even want two! Whether it's Karrimat / Multimat, or Ridgerest, a Thermarest on its own will not insulate enough. I'd go full-length on those closed cell mats too.
|
|
 Shingsowa, I have a pro lite 4 and its certainyl very comfortable and warm, its also pretty light but the pack size is sort of large, its only downside I would say. If you come on the windy meet or camping some time you can have a feel of it.
|
|
|
|
|
 This is the jobbie no other tool required. Best thing is that you can sledge down the mountainside on it
|
|
 If it was me I would take both and to hell with the weight! 
|
|
Try one of the Beacon closed cell foam mats -- can't remember the name, but weigh around 300g, cost £25 and resemble the late lamented Karrimat. Needlesports in Keswick stock em. They provide plenty of insulation on snow. For comfort, a Thermarest Prolite 3 short, claimed weight 370g (but usually 30g or so heavier) and cost c £60. Alternatively, get an Alpkit Wee Airic, which are about 450g and a third the price. Combined it's a very comfortable system that weighs no more than many four-season self inflating mats, and if the self inflating mat gets a puncture, you've still got the warmth of the Beacon, at least.
|
|
Hi,the Thermarest i use is thicker than the Prolite 4 and much more insulating on snow or bothy floors,cannot remember the name but it cost under £100. Before the days of Karrimat and Thrmarest [early70s] i used to issue my students for winter camping with a Fertilizer bag,some 1inch foam ,newspaper and Carpet tape.By this method you sealed the bags,kept the foam inflated and insulated by the paper.It made winter camps up below Great End comfortable.The whole thing compressed smaller than the later Karrimats. Look at the Exped website for interesting info on that product.good luck chris
|
|
 Hey there shingsowa! Can I in fact be rather perhaps politically incorrect here for a moment, and indeed raise the question about your hidden stove unit you mention! I have never had to hide a stove in travel by an airliner, as it happens, as it will be always found; but only know of the problems of travelling and re-using your fuel bottles! Indeed if my kit is anything other than completely virgin brand new in effect-it seems to be viably liable to likely seizure by the airport authorities in their searches of ones baggage! Even if there is the merest tiny trace of use, or smell of previous fuel used, then the bottles are taken from me as a confiscatable item! So I now tend to try to travel with either a new stove, that can be shown to be 100% unused, or to buy in the country I am travelling to. As it is I have even had quite obviously unused new fuel bottles taken off me-so now try to buy those in the destination country as well-when I go to buy my fuel to fill them with! This is no problem for European and USA/Canada/Australia etc. Heaven only knows how one copes travelling with a stove these days to really out of the way places! I always remember the big glass box display of things taken off of passengers passing through the busy US air hubs of Denver/Chicago over the last few years! There was indeed a very impressive collecton of a whole plethora of really fab looking camping stoves and fuel bottles of greatly varied variety! Some very nice displayed kit indeed!
|
| Edited: 16/01/08 13:06 |
I always use a ridgerest for snow, closed cell. Ok last year in Finland at -30 just checked, mines deluxe version
|
| Edited: 16/01/08 18:51 |
 re. carriage of fuel bottles on planes.
Ask the carrier what their policy is regarding IATA Dangerous Goods Regulations, section 2.3.2.5
"2.3.2.5 Camping Stoves and Fuel Containers that have Contained a Flammable Liquid Fuel
Operator Variations: LX-04, MA-05, PR_03, SN-01, SV-11
With the approval of the operator, as checked baggage only, camping stoves and fuel containers for camping stoves that have contained a flammable liquid fuel may be carried provided the fuel tank of the camping stove, and/or fuel container has been completely drained of all liquid fuel and action has been taken to nullify the danger. To nullify the danger, the empty fuel tank and/or container must be allowed to drain for at least one hour, the fuel tank and/or container must then be left uncapped for a minimum of 6 hours to allow any residual fuel to evaporate. Alternative methods, such as adding cooking oil to the fuel tank and/or container to elevate the flash point of any residual liquid above the flash point of flammable liquid and then emptying the fuel tank and/or container, are equally acceptable. The fuel tank and/or container must then be wrapped in an absorbent material such as paper towel and placed in a polythene or equivalent bag. The top of the bag must then be sealed or gathered and closed with an elastic band or twine.
Note:
Provided the above cleaning method is followed in accordance with these regulations, the fuel stove or container can be classified as non-hazardous. However to control the carriage of these items, they are listed in Table 2.3.A Provisions for Dangerous Goods Carried by Passengers or Crew."
|
| Edited: 16/01/08 19:31 |
 I would definitley go for Exped Downmat 7 (full length)
|
|
 Be smug and get the 9!
|
|
Thanks for the full specifications detail there captain p! It used to be so much easier to travel any "problem" kit by air pre 911 times; and if you wanted to take a long bladed machette or stove for expedition use you could arrange, in advance, for it to travel up front with the aircrew in some cases-provided the goods in question were adequately packed that is! The trans-atlantic carriers are now particularly hot on this type of thing-re camping type stoves/fuel bottles transportation-partly of course I suppose due to the same rules that stopped us all taking big bottles of shampoo etc onto planes this last year or so! They do worry that it is either to be potentially misused as an expedient ignition source to try to bring an aircraft down in a terror incident attack, or else is a possible source of accidental fire aboard the plane.
|
| Edited: 16/01/08 21:20 |
See, you ask a question and hell breaks loose As for stoves, have flown without trouble before, had mates travelling with me get their gear searched and confiscated... No clear answer really... I think I' ll go down either the foam or the Exped route. Thanks for the advice guys and girls, it has been much appreciated. Apologies if this doesn't make sense, i haven't had any sleep since yesterday!
|
|
NO! YOU ACTUALLY MAKE MUCH MORE SENSE PARTLY ASLEEP HERE shingsowa IT SEEMS, THAN do MANY MORE OF THE REST OF US ALL HERE WHEN MORE FULLY AWAKE!!!!!!
|
| Edited: 18/01/08 07:54 |
Hi as for the stove i have never had any problem since i switched to an MSR which runs off gas which can easily be obtained in Norway or Sweden. I also unscrew the units legs and burner,these then drop into a 300ml steel thermos flask,along with other emergency items.It is then reassembeld,gas bought and off we go
|
|
For those who care: Flew back yesterday. Took a kermit-green thermarest, as couldn't get an exped mat in time. Not too bad, but with four of us in the snowhole the temperature reached +10 degrees C at one point! Stove got through with no problems. I stuffed it in with my crampons 
|
|
