It has been said that I should be known as John 'SubZero' Burley for the number of occasions that I have brought up their kit on the forums and review pages. But my knowledge of their range is limited mainly to their Factor1, Factor2 and accesories.

I know that Bob does a good line in their All Active range and I was wondering if any of you have feedback. I am interested to know how you found the fit (whether you had to go up or down a size); performance and durability.

SZ also make a number of other items that interest me. They have been doing wind-shell jackets and smocks for a while now too using DuPont Tactel HT. I expect that this isn't the absolute lightest option for a windshell, but given it's use in balloon, parachutes and car airbags, it would seem that it is one of the tougher windproof fabrics. As I am often concerned about wear and tear on my other windshells, I was considering giving them a try but can't see one 'in the flesh' so any comments gratefully received.

I notice that Bob has the ladies All Active on clearance... bbbbbargain! Doh...

John,

I swear by the 'all active shorts'. I used to endure terrible chafing partly because of my chunky legs (it was extreme and I used to bleed on hot summer's days - we'll quit the details right there, shall we?), and these have removed that problem.... which is why I invested in three pairs when I walked WHW last year. My Icebreaker Merino boxers, apart from developing holes anyway, completely wore away with the chafing and probably made things worse! The fit is very snug, but not restrictive and I find them brilliant. If I were to point out any problem it would be that they seem to come too far up the stomach and it sometimes feels like that look when old men wear their trousers too high! The size fitted very well from go, so I didn't need to go up or down a size.

I look forward to investing in one of the 'all active long sleeve tops'. This time I'll probably use the excuse of walking Offa's Dyke or somesuch... as my icebreaker tops are all getting holey and in need of replacement now - they're only a few years old, too.

One thing I'm curious about with the special extra-super patches on the shirts (and this applies to Lowe's Dryflo Zone garments too)... why not just make the whole thing out of the better performing fabric?  An obvious answer would be durability of the whole garment, but there are times when i'm not going to be scraping it around and would like extra performance in the comfort side of things.  They could at least make another garment purely in the more lighter fabric?

Pete. 

John, I've used Tactel trousers some years ago; my memory is that they were excellent, perhaps a little flimsy feeling, but soft, light and windproof. My wife had a tactel windshirt  until she donated it to the wind at the top of a hill one day, again nice and soft. I've a feeling it and my trousers creased more readily than you would want, but can't be sure. And my Mrs still has a Factor 2 or 3 SZ top - really thick, superwarm, splendid for camp wear. I would definitely try the windshirt, if only because it will just feel nicer than all the pertex variants. The worst windshell for wear I ever had was a Marmot dri-clime - lasted one day backpacking round the Loch Mullardoch munros.

PS. Can't find a picture of the new windshirt  - could you post  a link?

I never got on so well with the base layer; it always felt a little tight, and the wide neck didn't suit. Wicked fine though. Can see why it's good for rowing.

Peter Clinch wrote (see)

why not just make the whole thing out of the better performing fabric? 

Pete. 

Well, I can't justify (yet) another wind shirt as I have four already. But one of my running & climbing partners wanted to get one, so I have ordered a couple of HT Smocks for him and his other half. That way I'll at least get to see what they are like. As I have dealt with Darrell at Subzero many times, he also managed to dig out some substandard All Active garments for me to buy at the same time. So I've got an All-Active short sleeve and a couple of pairs of boxers on the way too. No doubt reviews to follow!

As for their mixed fabric design, I have only used mono-fabric designs from SZ to date (F1, F2 & Polypro). The All Active range was developed years after the F1 & F2 were doing the rounds amongst rowers and the ilk... so perhaps the patches are there as much to 'modernise' the look of their garments as for anything else. You only have to look at brands like Spyder, UnderArmour, Nike etc. to see that clothing designed for sport has to attract the aesthetically conscious.

Martin,

I am a bit reluctant to mention this given that I think Bob does a great job... but Subzero themselves have an offer on All-Active : buy a Longsleeve, get a pair of boxers free. They also have bogof on the HT Smocks and Jackets.

The windshirts I have already are :

2 x Helly Hansen Motive jacket - very good garments but sadly discontinued

1 x Helly Hansen Mars Jacket (by far the lightest and most water repellent windshell I've ever come across... but I'm afraid to use it 'cause I can't believe it won't tear to shreds! It weighs about half of a Montane Featherlite at around 70g!!)

1 x Montane Featherlite Smock.

OK,

an order arrived at the weekend - a couple of pairs of SZ All Active boxers and a Short Sleeve T for me; and a couple of HT smocks for my friends.

I won't review them at this stage, but first impressions:

AA boxers : great! The 'odd' cut going high up the waist is good for me - covers my lower back when rowing and should be good under harnesses and rucksack waist belts too. My only reservation so far is the 8% elastane content (aka Lycra)... as Lycra tends to hold water in my experience. Not that I intend to be subjecting my boxers to a soaking, mind you...

AA ShortSleeve : bizarre. I did buy a 'substandard' and maybe the 'standard' ones are different, but the body was skintight while the sleeves were excessively floppy. Nothing like the photo:

While I don't look quite as 'milktray man' as this guy, I do have appropriately burly arms and I can't see how this could be intended as a sporting cut. I am hoping to send it back... A real shame as the fabric seems very good as for the boxers.

The HT smocks are all I hoped them to be, though the colours on the site are far from a true representation. The red really is red (not the fuschia from the subzerostore pages) and the sky blue is the more 'feminine' of the two. Certainly a fair bit heavier than my Montane Featherlite smock, but with all sorts of good design points. The wrists are not elasticated but have velcro tightening straps so you can easily pull them up above the elbox. The kangaroo pocket is cavernous (would take a map if necessary) and accessible from both sides or for keeping you hands warm. The zip has a full storm flap which is a rarity on a windshell. And the DWR at least appears to be WR from a simple test under the tap. I'll get feedback from my friends once they have put them through their paces.

So on balance from first impressions, I'd recommend the AA boxers and HT shells but would be cautious about the AA shirts unless you can try them on first.

John

their "sub standard" can be weird. i have two factor 1 ss tops. same size on the labels but not in fact. one is wider and longer than the other. both fit ok for what i want though.

steeling myself up for some "proper" purchases. curse you burley!

Yup, Parky, I've had the same problem. I have been fitting snuggly into size M for the last 12 years. Then suddenly two of the size M F1's substandards I ordered turned out to be minuscule. Fortunately, a French friend of mine who runs & climbs with me had been eying up the SZ stuff for ages and was glad to be able to take them off my hands! I couldn't be bothered to send them back to the UK. However I did send SZ a photo of two size M's on top of one another to show that there were several inches difference in sleeve and body length. Perhaps it's just someone sticking the wrong labels on?

I have also noticed some variability in the weight of the F1 fabric... perhaps SZ was experimenting with different thicknesses.

And I'm sure you wouldn't be considering the 'full spec' items unless you had liked the cheapies. Plus I know that you are in no need of encouragement when it comes to kit purchasing

John

it's all coming skiing with me next week for a proper evaluation. but i like what i see and feel so far though.

And the verdict is....?

I'm getting on very well with the All Active boxers so far... but surprised to note that they are made in Turkey (when all the rest of my SZ stuff has made in England on the label)...

bumped for

Parky's pontifications on purchased products...

And to say that I talked with Darrell @ SZ about the manufacture and it seems that the All Active kit is made in Turkey because they can't afford the machine to finish them in the UK. The majority of their stuff is still made in Leicestershire and they've been going since 1968 apparently...

LOL ALS,

I like their slogan.... 'Beyond Reason'

Is that deliberately self-mocking or just Aussie marketing vim?

Somewhere on the site it claims that their 'compression wear' increases venous return by 31%! Amazing. But what was happening to all that blood on it's way back to the heart before you squeezed yourself into 'digital camo' ballet tights, I cannot imagine.

Even their published data is amusing. They kindly left in the error bars - presumably on standard deviation - and the control data all lies within the error. In other words... no strong evidence to show that it works. They even wrote "Denotes small worthwhile positive effect". Excellent. Having worn lycra for cycling and rowing for 15 years now, I am glad that the invention of bio-acceleration technology is going to revolutionise my wardrobe. Surely just an excuse to get buff sportsmen/women into skintight kit.

Actually, the guys that really do get a pay-off from compression wear are powerlifters - they have different championships and records for lifts with a lifting-suit and without, and lifters will quote their PBs with/without a suit, and powerlifting federations regulate their design and use. I guess they store a lot of energy in the lowering phase of a lift, as well as help prevent injuries from the enormous weights involved.

But £60 for a pair of Skins tights, when you could just buy your Hellies a size too small?!?!