Until now, I’ve withstood the softshell trend and have found a mix between base layer, fleece and a hardshell appropriate for basically all conditions. So: I don’t think I need a softshell. But, as I have a bit of money left over, I somehow want one. Basically, it would combine the fleece and the hardshell for all but bad weather conditions (which, I gather, is the softshell niche).
Here in Germany, the jacket would cost me ~220€ (~160£) which seems a good price for a lightweight softshell, that – I guess – isn’t quite as water resistant as softshells with membranes, but offers higher breathability. Furthermore, a hood seems logical for this type of jacket, as do other features, albeit the pit zips seem to be missing...
My questions: Is this the right (type of) softshell for non-winter mountain activities? Does anybody have experience with this jacket? What other, similar jackets could you recommend?
I doubt the quality or performance is quite up to Millet standards, but for a cheaper option have a look at the Decathlon Bionnassay soft shell at £50 (or here if you're German). I've never worn one, but having examined them closely they look to be of decent quality, and Decathlon kit generally performs well.
The one you've indentified is Powershield. Now, I really, really like Powershield but it's for fairly serious conditions (I have some MEC slaopettes imade from it that I use for ski touring, and they're toasty in sub zero temperatures with gale force windchill).
"Soft shell" covers a very wide range of garments, and it seems to boil down to "windproof or not far off, and will keep a shower at bay" . Beyond that insulation value may vary between hardly any and lots, and for non-winter as specified i'd suggest the "hardly any" is the way to go. At the more minimal end are things like Pertex smocks (like the Montane Fetherlight or not quite so minimalist (it has pockets and vents) Buffalo Windshirt), or a nicer general wear garment would be something like the Patagonia Ready Mix. In a test of soft shells, Op Pad magazine gave it 6 stars out of 5 for breathability because it was so far ahead of everything else on test, it's more or less windproof and will keep you dry in a shower, but not serious rain. No pit zips, but with large venting pockets and the very breathable fabric it doesn't need them. The fabric is slightly stretchy and has a textured interior, which makes it more comfortable and slightly warmer than the plain pertex wind tops. The hood is a good one. This year's colours seem to be a bit disastrous, but you might find some of last year's if you scout about (mango, red, blue).
I have one, and as you may have guessed I'm a fan. I've used mine for XC skiing on nice days and cycling on much less nice days. Op Pad concluded "the perfect light soft shell" and I've certainly not had any regrets about getting one.
> The one you've indentified is Powershield. Now, I really, really like Powershield but it's for fairly serious conditions
The Touring uses a very, very lightweight version of PowerShield; hardly any insulation at all. Think of it more equivalent to Schoeller Dryskin and you're getting the right idea.
£160 seems expensive for a softshell to me... admittedly, the Touring is nicely cut, but it could do with a hood (as could all softshells, IMHO).
The Bionnassay is nice and cheap for a stretch nylon soft shell; well worth a look.
Owning lots of soft shells, I find myself going back to the versatility of fleece and windproof layer. I think the Ready Mix recommended by Pete may be the ultimate in robust lightweight windproof shells. Shame they're so expensive...
Another option which works well for me is a jacket/smoock of very lightweight fleece with a Pertex shell. It's much more breathable than single layer softshells, imo, keeps the wind and light rain off, particularly if you use a proofing agent, and gives a little warmth, but nowhere near as much as the classic Buffalo Pertex and pile. Examples are the Marmot Driclime shirt (sometimes billed as the "original softshell"), Rab Vapour Rise smock and jacket and Buffalo Teclite smock and Fell jacket. I like the Fell jacket cos it's got a hood.
I think the Ready Mix recommended by Pete may be the ultimate in robust lightweight windproof shells. Shame they're so expensive...
Got mine a couple of months back for £100 as Countryside cleaned out last year's colours. As long as you're XL and share Henry Ford's colour preferences they can still help you... I think there are a few other offers floating about on the web.
Thanks for all the comments and suggestions; the world of softshell does seem rather complicated.
@captain paranoia: The Millet has a hood.A question concerning the insulation:
Otherwise: I guess my interest in a softshell is counter-cyclical, it seems many people are heading back to light fleece + wind layer...
The Patagonia Ready Mix seems similar to the Millet, a bit lighter and probably less insulated. the price - at least here in Germany - is just about the same as the Millet. Problem with Montane and other UK companies: it's hard finding them over here.
Thanks for all the comments and suggestions; the world of softshell does seem rather complicated.
Otherwise: I guess my interest in a softshell is counter-cyclical, it seems many people are heading back to light fleece + wind layer...
But a wind layer, if it's not a fully waterproof one, can be considered a soft-shell! The point of a soft shell is that it's a great deal more breathable than a hard shell, so if it's blowing a gale but isn't raining hard then you have an option that is significantly more comfortable past the short term than putting your hard shell on to windproof the fleece/base.
Any time you're wearing your hard shell but it isn't actually raining hard and/or for a long periodis a time you would probably be better off in a soft shell.
d'oh! I was supposed to edit that bit out after I checked their website; the Pro Touring in Windstopper has no hood...
> it seems many people are heading back to light fleece + wind layer
I find it a more versatile system, but I still use soft shells. I tend to be careful about picking which one to use, and when to use it, though. I find the shelled micropile type (VR TRail, DriClime) to be one of the most useful, as the microfibre shell is more wind and water resistant than PowerShield and Schoeller Dynamic or Dryskin.
The ReadyMix is a very wind and water resistant, robust windproof. Much more so than PowerShield.
> Got mine a couple of months back for £100
Saw an XL in 'Mango' for £70 in a TKM a few weeks back...
> Any time you're wearing your hard shell but it isn't actually raining hard and/or for a long period is a time you would probably be better off in a soft shell.
Well put. I used a similar, but reverse argument on when to choose a hard shell rather than a soft shell some time ago...
Just thought i'd make you all jealous by saying that my ready mix cost €60 in their outlet store here in Dublin, guess it just proves that we are sometimes willing to pay excessively for quality gear-although having used it for a while now i can say that i'd probably still be willing to pay full price for it as it's one of my favourite pieces of gear and a trusty companion on all my adventures, couldnt recommend it enough(in the right conditions).Its the definition of what a softshell should be- a second skin which is very water resistant(not proof), very wind resistant(not proof)-and most importantly IT HAS A HOOD.
OK, this is getting interesting. I realize, no jacket is ideal for all situations. I am basically interested in the softshells just because I've never had one and understand that there's a specific area of activity where they make sense.
Just as an example: I start a day trip in spring at 8am at 1000m; it's rather brisk (10C, later 15-20C; hopefully sunny), I wear a functional tshirt and a fleece until I get warm enough to take it off. If it rains, I put on my Superfly XT; at the top of the mountain (2500m) it's cold, I put the fleece back on and, if it's windy (usually is), the Superfly. Basically, I could leave the fleece and the hardshell at home. Is that the idea?
Coming back to the Millet Touring Hoodie and the Patagonia: My best deal for the Millet is ~160£, I just found the Patagonia for 90£ - quite a difference... The Patagonia is a bit lighter, thus possibly a bit less insulated. Quesions for lil john:
how warm ist the Ready Mix, that is: at what temperatures do you use it?
how does it handle wind and rain?
any other comments? Would you agree with Peter's assessment above?
Thanks alot, great forum here, much better than any German speaking ones!
Polo, with your example you could either leave the hardshell at home or save it for heavy and/or prolonged rain, wearing a soft shell instead for greater comfort (good though eVent is for breathability, it's an order of magnitude worse than something without any sort of membrane). Whther you would take the fleece or not would depend on the soft-shell: if it's like the Ready Mix you'd still want the fleece as (like Captain paranoia says) it has no insulation, but if it's something like, say, a shelled micropile like the Rab VR, Buffalo Techlite or Marmot Driclime you could probably do without the fleece too.
Executive summary of "the idea" is it will replace a hard shell in all but heavy/prolonged rain, the greater breathability bringing greater comfort. If you don't have any comfort issues with your Superfly then it's not worth it, but most of us find breathable waterproofs a bit sweaty, even eVent ones. Some soft shells will replace a fleece as well, others won't (as Captain Paranoia says, the RM won't).
Your specific bullet-point Qs...
The Ready mix isn't insulated, as we've already said, so you can wear it at most temperatures. I've used it ski touring and XC skiing with suitable insulation underneath (varying from a base layer for skating in the sun to a couple of light fleeces for a shady snack break), and I've done quite a bit of cycling in it, generally at ambients of around 10C, with just a light fleece base-layer underneath. In high winds I'd be happy to use it pretty much any time of year, though nastiercold conditions i'd quite possibly be using a shelled micropile instead. It's quickly become my jacket of choice for 5-15C ambients, with base layers changed to reflect thegeneral temperature.
It handles wind very well. It'snot completely windproof, but it takes most of the sting out of it. Rain will get through it after about 10 minutes if it's reasonably heavy. The Deluge DWR is quite effective in keeping the worst of it running off, and the degree to which it comes through has been coped with okay by my underlayers, but in prolonged rain you might reasonably prefer a hard shell.
In summary, save your money if you never feel the Superfly is a bit steamy inside, but if you do then that's when a soft shell is your friend.
Again, thanks for the comments. I had a look at the Ready Mix. The jacket fits well and seems very well made, but, as you've said, it offers zero insulation.
I'll habe a look at the other jackets you've suggested. Until then, one further question: I won't be able to check out the Millet Touring Hoodie here in Munich, therefore: Does somebody know if it offers at least a bit of insulation?
If you want something like the Ready Mix with a bit of insulation then Patagonia's Dimension jacket is similar to the RM but with a light knit interior. Their Winter Guide is quite a bit warmer, but heavier and costs more. And while an insulated one lets you do without the fleece it's less flexible overall as it's less use in warmer conditions. You choose, you lose...
I therefore ordered the Millet and the Patagonia Ready Mix and will check out the sizing and the general quality impression.
Another jacket that turned up ist the Mammut Core, I guess the follow-up modell to the Laser Light: http://www.draussen.de/produkte/mammut_core_jacket_697.shtml (sorry information only in German...). Regular price is disgusting (375€), but they're being sold for around 250€. I might have a look at that as well.
Wow, so are you just going to try them all and see which suits best-then return the others?Is returning items bought over the internet that easy in Germany?As much as I'd love to do that I would just be too afraid of being ignored by the website/bad customer service/being shafted by import duty or postage and packaging, have you had good experiences with the sites you ordered from?
