Hi,

I'm reasonably new to hiking and lightweight kit and have some questions relating to lightweight ruck sacks and keeping them dry.

I'm thinking of getting a OMM Villain 45+10 MSC or perhaps something lighter like a Golite Jam 2.  I don't think either of these comes with a waterproof cover (maybe I'm wrong) and I was wondering whether to worry about a this and instead just opt for a drybag to be used internally instead.  This way I won't need to stop in order to put a cover on as all my kit would always be in the drybag and safe.

The only potential problem I can see is that if the rucksack gets soaking wet (externally) then it would possibly weigh more than if it was kept dry by way of a external rainproof cover.  Maybe the dyneema fabric , of which I have no experience, wouldn't soak up the water and become heavier at all??

Maybe I should look out for a Lightweight rucksack which is waterproof on it's own without any drybag or rain proof cover??   Any suggestions for this welcomed along with suggestions for alternatives to the villain or Jam2 (needs to be about 55 - 60 litres), suggestion for good drybags and rainproof covers.

I currently use a Karrimor 75-90l rucksack (3KG) with a rain cover (430g) and so I am looking forward to making a huge saving in weight for the new rucksack!!

Cheers

I dont like rain covers on packs, they catch the wind too much. The dyneema shouldnt soak up too much water for the weight to be much of an issue.

I would deffinitely go down the dry bag route instead of a cover but that leaves the question, do you get one big drybag for everything or separate drybags for individual items? There are good arguments for booth and I'm sure there will be a few responses on here shortly.

Personally I use seperate dry bags for sleeping bag, dry clothes, tent and a little one that goes in my rucksack lid containing first aid Items, general repair stuff and takes my mobile, wallet etc. it doesnt matter if anything else in my pack gets wet.

The new Lightwave Packs have welded or taped seams and are claimed to be 'virtually waterproof' whatever that means! Plastic bags are fine as liners - the thinner they are the less they weigh but the more often you need to replace them. I'd always keep my sleeping bag in a dry-bag though. And always carry some kind of poly bag for my waterproofs.

The golite jam doesn't soak up much water - certainly not enough to outweigh a raincover + whatever it soaks up/pools on it. When mrs stove's very old one started to soak a bit up I just soaked the whole pack with tx-direct & it became fully water repellent again.

I use a single drybag (which, at 60g, weighs the same as a rubble sack, lasts 10x as long, and means that my rucsac can withstand being submerged. I used to use rubble sacs but found they weren't that durable. Everything that I want to keep dry goes in the drybag, everything else (stove, waterproofs, pans) goes into my pack loose. My only other stuffsac is for food.

is virtually waterproof like virtual reality? i.e. nothing like it

My Haglofs Matrix 70ltr has a hydrostatic head of 1500mm,but the seams are not taped therefore not a waterproof pack...My local shop did show me a fully waterproof pack,then he showed me the price tag!! £200 +.

Dry bags for me ...

Thanks for all of your advice.

I think I'm sold on the idea of using dry bags.  I like the idea of not having to stop to put a cover on and I also like to be able to utilise the pockets on the rucksack without having to take any cover off. I now need to decide whether to use one or many drybags.  My initial thought are one large one, to save weight.  Decision decisions! 

With regards to rubble sacks/carrier bags, these sound cheap, but  how do you actually seal them up?  Or do you just fold the tops down or something? 

Stove Man, where did you get your 60g dry bag from?  That sounds really light.  What size is it? Any link appreciated. 

Smamitman, where do you get your 100% silicon spray from? It can't hurt to use this in addition to drybags.

Cheers again 

I use silicon spray as a lubricant between plastic/nylon parts on some of the M/C's in work. I have loads of the stuff. If you want a tin I'll happily post you one.

(is it ok to post aerosols?)

To be honest though I dont know if I'd be happy spraying the stuff on my expensive rucksack though, even if it is foodsafe.

Lightweight sacks don't really leak or have less waterproof than any standard bag! If anything lightweight bags are better as the materials are better quality and dry quicker. The seams are exactly the same as a normal bag so all in all there theres no question as to the lightwave sacks being any less waterproof.

Dry Bags are excellent, use them to seperate your kit, store it dry, compress you kit. Buy several dry bags, I have a dozen or so small and extra small exped dry bags, I keep my sleeping bag in one, my spare clothes in one, my waterproofs in one, my tent inner in one and my tent outer in one etc, they are the key to keeping your kit in shape!

Jamie what sleeping bag can you fit in the small exped bag? My alpkit PD 600 goes in a red one, just.

Also just to be a pedantic git (and before CB or FB notices it) why keep your waterproofs in one?

edited to add smilies so Jamie doesnt think I'm getting at him

Interesting article on keeping gear dry: http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/DryGear/index.html

In my limited experience of the Jam, the roll top closure will always allow some water in, so a main dry sack liner is essential (I use an exped 40).

BBF, main reason is so that if I need to put my waterproof pants or jacket back in my sack they don't wet everything in there. Same philosophy for my tent too, you can not only use drybags to keep wet out but also to keep it in and away from other gear! Useful for tents especially, you can put them away wet then keep getting them out again through the day and drying them off then putting away less and less water each time and still not wet everything in your pack.

My Alpkit PD400 fits in a Yellow Small Exped Dry Bag, they fit perfectly stuffed into on the nwiggle it then fold the top.

Ive never really had much prob putting wet stuff into my sack because everything else critical already has its own drybag. I would generally just give waterproofs a shake as they're small enough to get most of the wet off (especially if the DWR is working). If the tent is wet I just stick the inner in its drybag and keep the fly stuffed in the top of pack or a side pocket and hang it up over trekking pole washing line when stopped for a rest to dry it.

There isnt a "correct" way, each to their own methods I suppose. Its just interesting hearing what others do.

BTW I like the fact that the PD 400 goes in a yellow exped. How do you get on with the PD 400 for spring/summer temps? I love my PD 600 but its just too warm for this time of year. I was last out in an old synthetic karrimor bag and was a little cold in it. I think the insulation has just had its day. The only thing holding me back from the PD 400 is the worry that it also might be too warm at this time of year.