 Hi, I am quite impressed by the Buffalo range of clothing, but could anyone tell me there experience of using Buffalo when carrying a pack between 10-20kg. Are the shirts suitable for this? I am thinking of the Special 6 for colder weather, but for milder conditions what are my best options for 4-5 day hikes? Is the pertex 5 of the Mountain Shirt durable enough for carrying a pack? How do the different pertex compare for this purpose? Thanks.
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 The pertex 5 & 6 buffalo use is tougher than it looks but will show signs of wear pretty quick from carrying a heavy pack, good news is that as long as you don't mind that it won't affect the performance at all and if eventually you do wear a hole in it they are easy to fix. In my experience the textured Pertex 5 used in the activeshirt is very good for durability. The deep pile Buffalos like the special 6 are indeed seriously warm so for milder conditions one of the teclite options (teclite shirt, activelite shirt) would be a better choice, still pretty toasty though.
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 In the mid-90s I wore Buffalo top-to-toe continually on the Speyside Way and West Highland Way, walking between February and March through hail, rain, sleet and snow, while carrying all my worldly possessions on my back. It was grand then, and I can only assume that it's improved over the past decade. Unfortunately, I don't have any direct experience of the latest garments.
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Ive used a Mountain Shirt with a 20kg pack for a while - probably about 20 days so far (not often its cold enough down in southern england) and it's showing no signs of wear. Although I have found that the zips can dig in slightly under hipbelt (the side zips mainly) which after a long while can start to hurt.
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 Actually thats maybe the one complaint (besides recent disorganisation) you could level at Buffalo - they don't seem to have changed much. Not that the main P5/6 pile stuff really needed to of course! Elsewhere not so clear. Montane for instance seem to have taken the idea of a pertex windshirt and run rather a long way with it.....
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Buffalo is great but I agree with Martin, Montane have moved the idea forward. Also, don't over look the new Snugpac shirts, the new fleece lined ones are good over a broarder temperature range.
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 and not to forget Mardale... or Extreme if you can get in touch with Keith... I think that's what I'd want if I was in the market... Buffalo got the ball rolling but others have improved on the concept.
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 Buffalo got the ball rolling but others have improved on the concept. Have they? Really? I mean you may like a patch here, or a zip there, or the colour red, but at the end of the day what's changed? It's still windproof and pile clothing. The most important thing with this type of clothing is the fit. Close but not too close. (who ever makes it)
As for buffalo; it's true they don't change much. They only seem to change things if they find something better... BTW their the 1st firm I saw use pertex Quantum or Equilibrium in clothing.
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Oh dan pertex 5 will be fine for a good few years. But if you haven't used buffalo gear before then benco right that a teclite shirt (mardale also make some shirts like this to) might be a better starting point. (you can use it more of the year) Teamed up with a apline or belay jacket.
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Improved mainly in the sense of improvements in manufacture quality from what I have been able to tell from inspection. My pile pertex is an extremely warm and well loved Rab Berber Tech Smock from 1998. Even then, it had many minor design improvements compared with the Buffalo (one or two of which are in the Extreme smock). I agree fit is crucial which is why Extreme's custom fit at no extra charge seems too good to miss; but you'll have to be prepared to wait for it and deal with Keith directly from what I can tell. When I eventually have to replace my Rab I'm hoping he'll still be in business! No harsh criticism of Buffalo; it does what it's supposed to do. Just to say all being equal I'd prefer something else (Montane, Extreme, Mardale...) because I reckon they do it just that bit better  . John
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I can't really speak about Extreme(or trax, karrimor or patagonia copys) as I've never used one (extreme ones do look good mind) but I've used shirts from the other firms. I started with a buffalo shirt but now I have come full circle. Hamish just got so many things right! I think there's something on needlesports to the same effect.
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 I don't think there's much problem with it wearing out with a 20 Kg pack, but a pack that big entails a lot of work and if you're going up a hill too in a Buffalo in anything other than seriously cold weather then the main look-out would be spontaneous human combustion... For which reason I'd look at the Teclite rather than the Mountain or Special 6. The Teclite is not a million miles off the old Montane Krypton, which I've ski toured with a ~15 Kg pack in and it was no worse the wear for. And I was never cold in it either. Pete.
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I wasn't really talking about the Special 6 and friends - to be honest their design seems very good to me  Basically the classic design seems very, very good for anything that's going to be worn next to the skin - which includes a fair bit of the micropile things they do of course. Less sure how well the rest of the range has aged/diversified. The classic windshirt has certainly been left well behind by stuff like the light speed and friends. The 03 is an awfully quirky way to use quantum compared to a purist ultra light windshirt like the slipstream They've never used microlight for some reason. The belay jackets might not lose loft over time but are also much heavier and bulkier than synthetics. Their lighter weight trousers just don't seem as well designed as some others - compare say the terra stretches to the equimax's. Their UK manufacture and consequent custom fit service is certainly nice mind. Don't get me wrong - they've still got an awfully good core product. Interesting to compare them to Paramo actually. Both started out with a very strong , slightly unusual core product but Paramo do seem to have diversified from this much more sucessfully.
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Thanks. Looks like the Active Light shirt with the teclite lining might be the way to go then.
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> The classic windshirt has certainly been left well behind by stuff like the light speed and friends The light speed is some lighter pertex and a zip. Not really revolutionary. In fact apart from the weight, are things like a map pocket, vent zips and being tougher and more windproof a bad thing? It really depends what your doing. >The 03 is an awfully quirky way to use quantum compared to a purist ultra light Might be but when you think it's designed to be the 'only' top you take with you. It's buffalo think next to the skin and venting. > The belay jackets might not lose loft over time but are also much heavier and bulkier than synthetics. I think this can do over played my belay jacket and hood fit in a A5 alpkit stuff-sac and it's about 650g. In winter it's the only layer I carry. If your not using a totally buffalo system then newish synthetics will make better sitting around jackets. > Paramo do seem to have diversified from this much more sucessfully. It's true they don't seem set on world denomination, oversea mass-production, next years colour schemes, cloning other firms products and maximising profits. Is that a bad thing?
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Just one thing - with this sort of weight of micropile you really have to decide if you want to wear it next to your skin or as a mid layer. It works well either way but you'll find a lot of micropile garments are cut as mid layers and won't really work as base layers. The active lite is in fact (slightly oddly given its features) currently cut as a mid layer - I had one and the sleeves/neck etc were very wide - apparently the teclite shirt is rather closer cut so might be a better choice if after an 'all in one' garment. Also worth looking at RAB vapour rise stuff & (if after a mid layer) Montane's Scarab. Very similar sorts of garments performance wise. Whichever fits best is probably the way to go
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I had an original Special 6 - made to measure too - but switched to the Montane Extreme because I thought it had some clever and far from trivial improvements. Thin fleece under the arms made it less sweaty, the cross-vent ventilation system is hugely better than the Buffalos all-or-none side vents, the hand warmer pockets are not covered by your rucsack belt, and the hood quite conceivably the difference between life and death if you're in a situation where peripheral vision is useful. But, as others have said, with 20kg on your back you will need some seriously cold weather to merit either. I've tried many of the lighter micro-pile/pertex tops over the years, and they all seem to promise more than they deliver; I'd be inclined to go for a decent tough windproof with or without a hood as you prefer. This means you can adjust your wicking and insulation layers to suit. I've had one of the original Buffalo windshirts, which being Pertex 5, are tougher than many of the lighter more recent windshirts, and it was good, but nowadays I'd also want to check out the Curbar windshirt and Equimax jacket; although I've no experience of the last two, the Equilibrium fabric seems a good idea.
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Actually not sure how much microlight does differ from P5 in performance terms. Its still 52 g/m2 and certainly really pretty tough. Quantum is much more of a trade off of course. The light speed actually has a map pocket, a full zip (for venting) and a hood in too while still being a fair chunk lighter. They've then got some even more minamilist ones, ones with different vents & cuts for specific uses etc etc. There are also of course some very tough non membrane softshells for climbing from other people etc. I guess I just feel that Buffallo rather missed out here - I don't know the history for sure but would assume they popularised the idea of light, microfibre windshirts as opposed to Ventile and the like? That has to be a much bigger market overall than pertex/pile garments, especially with the way our winters are going. Really they just seem to have slightly missed the boat here. Oh well The curbar actually brings me onto to where I do think Paramo's strategy has worked rather better. Looks a nice garment that - a basic, hooded equilibrium (nice fabric) shell. But to find one to try on? Much harder than finding any of Paramo's stuff. (In design terms + for stretch I'd take a dynamo. Hoods nice though.).
You get the same issue with most of Buffalo's non core products really, which I'd imagine is why they've never really seemed to expand past the core range. Shrug.
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Wow! What a great response. There is plenty to think about here. Thanks to everyone for their input. The only Buffalo garment that I have been able to find and try was the Special 6 which I really liked the fit of, but this would only be of use in winter conditions. I really like the idea of a single layer. I thought the Active Light shirt with the teclite lining might serve the same purpose for spring and autumn, but I am surprised to hear that it is cut differently as a midlayer. The Buffalo catalogue does not describe it that way. It's a pity a range of products cannot be found in shops to compare side by side. The Fell Jacket with teclite also looks interesting, but the design also does not seem to suggest that it is to be worn next to the skin, and again the Buffalo literature says nothing to differentiate between the designs in terms of using them as anything other than a single layer garment.
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A little annoying this I agree! I spent a while looking for a next to skin micropile smock recently and as far as I can tell the only micropile options designed for next to skin wear are the VR smock & stretch top (RAB) and maybe the Teclite shirt. The active lite cut confused me too but the neck/sleeves really were cut that way. The teclite shirt does also have an attached hood - very useful in this sort of thing. If you're intending to wear a micropile next to skin I would definetly reccomend trying it on before buying it. They really do have to fit well to work properly. Someone should make a stretch fit one If you're near to the peak district then Hitch and hike have a variety of styles of micropile in stock including the odd discounted Montane style (Although I don't think they've had any Buffalo micropiles in recently). Thats where I got my (very nice but discontinued) duality smock. Needlesports seem to have the teclite shirt in stock in a variety of sizes.
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