I have a Gelert Kiara 85L sack. I have just shoved a tent, bivi bag, 3 season sleeping bag, fleece jacket, socks, stove, mess tin, thermarest etc. It looks badly stuffed and feels uncomfortable.

I am guessing that for winter mountain expeditions (in the UK) I'm going to need a 100L pack, so that I can pack my stuff in an orderly fashion.

Can anyone recomend a pack between 85 and 100L that will hold all this gear and be comfortable and preferably have side pockets, lid pocket, a hydration sleeve, trek pole mounts and not be a garish colour, oh and be nice and cheap! Don't want much do I?

Thanks

Sounds like you need to lighten your load and pack it better

You should be able to get the kitchen sink in a 100L pack!

Seconded, 85l should be absolutely plenty.

I used to use a 70l sack for solo backpacking and never had any problems getting my kit in it. Do you really need a tent and a Bivi Bag ? Or are you talking about one of the emergency orange plastic bags ?

I'm not surprised that an 85L sac feels uncomfortable.

60L is way enough for me...and since I replaced my fleece jacket with a duvet and the heavy waterproof with a paclite I don't even use 60L any more.

What it really all boils down to is...

How long are your 'expeditions' going to be Cathy?

85L is a helluva lot to be carrying around, even in winter.

Chuck half your stuff out and get a reasonably sized sack.

You'll thank yourself later.

Over about 4 years I gradually replaced kits with lightweight version, hence the change from 60L to 40-50.

Is the thermarest the 3/4 ultralight one? It packs down to the size of an arctic roll.

Cathy, You could have a 125 L sack and you would still fill it!
As the others have said, it's a lot to drag around. Solo backpacking needs alot more dicipline with gear or the whole idea of freedom goes out of the window. The people that enjoy backpacking most are generally the ones that let the environment provide much of the stuff.

Carrying heavy loads over the mountains is OK if you have to, but if you don't ... Why bother?

If you look at it like this it may be easier...

You can go on a three day backpack in Scotland (3 season) with what you can carry in your pockets.
The gear you take in a pack will equate to how comfortable you wish to be.

another thing... Gelert (in my opinion) aren't the most accurate when it comes to pack volumes, your 85L pack could be as small as 60L in actual fact.

Horrors, a 100ltr rucksack for winter use. What on earth are you carrying lass? I use a macpac that takes 65 to 70 ltr and have used it in winter on a regular basis. It has been used for carrying up to a weeks gear, including tent, light 8oz bivi bag, food for a full week, fuel,sleeping bag, ice axe crampons etc. The bigger the rucksack the more you will find to put in it. Obviously if you are intending to have a fixed base you can carry a tad more in. I would suggest you aim for an 80 ltr rucksack top.

I regularly use an 85l pack for 10+ days in remote areas in NZ. Sharing the load with 3 to 5 people and carrying all supplies, tents, alpine gear, ropes, etc it weighs about 32-37kg (depending how evenly the load is shared). If pace was important we would get it down to 30kg.
Unless you want to carry 40kg+ I wouldn't recommend a 100l pack.
If you do want to carry that kind of weight I would reccomend the Macpac Torre but it is not available in UK as no-one needs a pack that big here. The nearest thing is the Macpac Ascent which at 70l can accomomodate a fair load but its simpler harness limits it to 25kg judging by comments from friends and my 55l Pursuit which has a similar harness.
Only thing is they are not cheap to buy but are durable so won't need replacing for many years.
PS are you one of these people I see doing the West Highland Way carrying big packs strung with all kinds of stuff to walk past shops to B&B's.

Cathy, I think the big issue here is thinking that a 33 quid rucksack is going to be acceptable kit for "winter mountain expeditions".

The sack is likely to be deficient in both design and construction, thus the sack will distort if not packed perfectly, leading to the stuffed look, and it probably fails to transfer load to your hips properly and drags your shoulders backwards making it uncomfortable.

I too would advise a 65 litre sack from a reputable manufacturer- Macpac, Karimor, Lowe Alpine or if you can't stretch to that sort of money (tho I'd have rated a decent sack well above a thermarest in teh buying order) then Vango make some good value kit.

http://www.cotswoldoutdoor.com/Cat/35662?history=search%20results Is this the Torre you are talking about Rrorry?

a 65ltr sac should be all you need - and can carry - in the winter. i use a POD cragsac (47+12) and find that as long as i put my thermarest on the outside its fine for a 3 or 4 day trip in the winter.

i used to carry a 125ltr rucksac that could live out of for about 10-14 days, however, it was so heavy that it meant i'd find a site and stay there for 10 days before walking out with a half empty sac.

if thats what you want then i'd reccomend a military rucksac (the PLCE infantry bergan, berghaus vulcan etc..) as that is what they were designed and built for.

you could also - as i do i'm afraid -choose to spend winter trips in bothy's rather than taking a tent. it means you can keep your kit drier and bring more food/warm kit to make your experience far more enjoyable than sitting in a wet nylon box for a few days.

Rrorry - you mean pounds rather than kg right?

40+ kg! That's 40litres of water!

Thanks for all the advice. I got the rucksack free with a tent and I can't get it to sit comfortably on me even when empty, so I think the design just doesn't suit. I usually use a 65L pack for 3 season use. I choose to take a tent and a bivi bag, so depending upon where I find myself and how I feel etc I can choose whether to pitch a tent or just bivi down. I'm not one of those people that heads for the hills with an itinery that must be kept to at all costs. On page 182 of Mr Townsend's "The Backpacker's Handbook" it is suggested that using a bivi bag inside a tent adds more warmth to the sleeping bag. I admit that my synthetic winter sleeping bag is very bulky, but as we live in a wet climate and it is cheaper than down it didn't seem too odd a buying choice. I don't want to hang my thermarest on the outside of the pack where I fear it will be susceptible to punctures and loss.

I appreciate that one can go on expeditions and survive with a knife and fire steel in your pocket, but sometimes you want to sit in a tent and read a book. I note man of the woods Mr Ray Mears uses what appears to be a military bergen which looks stuffed to busting with things. In his book "Essential bushcraft" Mr Mears recommends a 100L rucksack for cold weather. I guess I could spend an atrocious amount of money on getting lightweight gear (once again it is only the well off who can really enjoy the great outdoors in comfort). Or go ultralight which seems to mean sitting under a tarp getting cold and whittling a spoon, which is a fun and worthwhile thing to do, but not every trip.

I am prepared to invest a decent amount of money on a good rucksack which is why I asked here for some advice. I am grateful to John Bailey for confirming my suspicion that not all 85L sacks are the same when it comes to volume as well as design. I have tried a Berghaus Bioflex in a shop and it felt comfortable and I was able to get it to fit well (though with no weight in it). Does anyone have any experience of how useful the volume is in them?

Just out of interest, for a 4 day, 3 night trip in a mountainous region of the UK in the middle of a cold winter what make and size pack would you use and what exactly would you pack in it (if possible giving makes and weights).

Thanks again for all the advice so far.

Cathy - rather than take a very bulky synth bag, wear all your clothes inside a 3 season bag - works for me and I sleep cold.

Which area are you looking to explore?

Have you tried out a Karrimor Jaguar, which comes with lots of litres to spare?

http://search.ebay.co.uk/karrimor-jaguar_W0QQfkrZ1QQfromZR8


You know, I'm 5'2" and sometimes struggle a bit carrying my 65L Alpiniste (Karrimor again), but find I can fit all of my winter gear into a 30L hot ice, including a down jacket, crampons, survival bag and lots of food, as well as all the usual 5 hats and 7 pairs of gloves . I would take the Alpinist if we were wild camping, and would take half of the tent, which is also really light (terra nova voyager). Also, you could get a super light stove and cooking system; try a MSR Ti kettle, and in it fits a Coleman F1 stove a 100size gas.

You should fill out your profile Cathy, because it's really hard to know what kind of gear you like, but I agree with the others that you should look into going light and small, and you could try and plan your first/ last night linking with stuff you have left at your motor, so you only have 1 or 2 night roughing it. I know that some of the good gear seems expensive, but it's worth it when it's your comfort and safety at risk.

If you have a Decathlon store nearby have a look at their Forclaz Symbium backpacks.
They do a womens version in 50,60 and 70+10 sizes.
Very highly specced for the price.

I HAD a bioflex c7 pro, stress the HAD.

The liner rubbed through thus screwing water impermeability aspirations.

I found the size too big. Ok, but not ok, I was constantly trying to make things bulky!

The compression system on it is fairly rubbish so don't expect to get much of a range of volumes.

Having said that it is a FANTASTIC carry, nothing is as comfortable, I was dissapointed when it broke.

I now use a Lowe Alpine Frontier.

Rucksack design is one area I will not save weight stupidly in, a good trekking pack HAS to be well padded and supported and the lightweight packs simply cannot give the comfort or the efficient carry.

Although I wouldn't disregard Golight etc, they're designed for what they do - take light loads well, but I would prefer a comfy heavier bag than a terrible lightweight bag....